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Correction. When I referred to thunderstorms etc, I meant it is not my belief that God has anything to do with them today.
If a person is calling themselves a Christian, ie. a follower of Christ, and then states that they have no problem with the evolutionary line, then they are in a huge quandry.
One of the Gospels traces Jesus' ancestry back generation after generation and finally reaches 'Adam, son of God'.
Why do you have to make untrue claims that I am 'lording' it over anyone?
I have as much right to my beliefs as anyone else, including other Christians. I am merely defending them against this onslaught.
And always will.
BTW, did you read that link I posted? Clear as mud, isn't it.
Agnostic Soldier must be a rocket scientist....he seems to understand every word!
Most of the US population claims to be Christian. Of that, little less than half claim to be fundamentalists such as yourself. Some of these folks go on to get science degrees and work in the field. I know a few Biology teachers who themselves are Creationists, yet teach Evolution begrudgingly. They personally do not believe in Evolution due to their fundamentalist beliefs from the bible. Take this microcosm and apply it to the population at large, and you will not find 100% of scientists agreeing on Evolution with most of the dissenters disbelieving due to their literal interpretation of the bible.
The same holds true for Climate Change. Most scientific dissenters do not accept man-made conditions for Climate Change due to religious reasons, or in lesser cases, bribes from Big Oil. If you're a Creationist and you think the Earth is only 10k years old, the Climate Change data alone invalidates your fundamental young age Earth belief. (600k+ years for ice core data.)
So yeah, a very small portion of scientists may favor Creation due to unscientific bias for it, which goes against the Scientific Method. (Let's not call it "Intelligent Design" unless we call a monkey in a tuxedo Cary Grant)
There's not much credibility in setting out to validate something you believe can NEVER be wrong or disproven. That's the kind of thing Kim Jong Il of North Korea demands from his yes-men loyalists.
You all got that, didn't you? Agnostic Soldier included!!
And where is the bit about matter having always existed?
Fraud.
Your the only fraud here, you purport to know about science yet you know absolutely nothing.
The Law of Conservation of Mass Energy states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, it can transfer from one object to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. Imagine a brick building that was blown up, the bricks would change to a different kind of material, but the same amount of matter would still be there as there was when the building was still standing. It's the same with the universe. The universe didn't pop 'out of nothing.' The contents of the universe existed before the beginning of the universe. Also, the god concept isn't exempt from having to prove whether or not it is true by means of scientific testing. If you exempt 'god' from scientific testing and purport it as being true, then you have to exempt all other claims from scientific testing even though their existence is unprovable , whether they be the Boogeyman, Dracula, Ra, Thor, Zeus, the Almighty Toothfairy, IPUs, the FSM, Gandalf, Robocop, Bridget, Athena, Osiris, Mythra etc. Also, you still haven't given any substantive evidence for the claim that some sky wizard flicked his fingers then out popped the universe.
Last edited by agnostic soldier; 10-29-2008 at 04:37 PM..
The Law of Conservation of Mass Energy states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, it can transfer from one object to another, but it cannot be created or or destroyed. Imagine a brick building that was blown up, the bricks would change to a different kind of material, but the same amount of matter would still be there as there was when the building was still standing. It's the same with the universe. The universe didn't pop 'out of nothing.' The contents of the universe existed before the beginning of the universe. Also, the god concept isn't exempt from having to prove whether or not it is true by means of scientific testing. If you exempt 'god' from scientific testing and purport it as being true, then you have to exempt all other claims from scientific testing even though their existence is unprovable , whether they be the Boogeyman, Dracula, Ra, Thor, Zeus, the Almighty Toothfairy, IPUs, the FSM, Gandalf, Robocop, Bridget, Athena, Osiris, Mythra etc. Also, you still haven't given any substantive evidence for the claim that some sky wizard flicked his fingers then out popped the universe.
I deliberately posted that link. YOU claimed that Heisenbergs's Uncertainty Principle proved that matter had always existed.
I am not a scientist and neither are you. I scanned that page looking for this explanation about the eternal matter. And could find none. Where is it?
You are hoist by your own petard. Because one of your arguments against a God was....'Well, who made God'?
Now, you are perfectly willingly to believe that matter had no beginning.
Show me the evidence from Mr Heisenberg....and do make up your mind, one way or another.
Yes, those are all good points. There is much yet to be discovered about quantum mechanics. I suppose it's possible that we were not given free will by God but yet it is woven into the fabric of quantum mechanics somehow. Hmm....interesting. I will have to take a look at those links you sent me. I guess one thing to try to remember with philosophical stuff is to not allow yourself to get too wrapped up in it. You definitely could go insane if you go too deep with some of this stuff. Though it is fascinating to me.
I deliberately posted that link. YOU claimed that Heisenbergs's Uncertainty Principle proved that matter had always existed.
I am not a scientist and neither are you. I scanned that page looking for this explanation about the eternal matter. And could find none. Where is it?
You are hoist by your own petard. Because one of your arguments against a God was....'Well, who made God'?
Now, you are perfectly willingly to believe that matter had no beginning.
Show me the evidence from Mr Heisenberg....and do make up your mind, one way or another.
I didn't claim the Uncertainty Principle said matter always existed, I said if the universe came from nothing then it could explain how it happened. There is a physical vacuum in which there are forcefields and particles that are flitting in and out of existence. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle can best best explain the properties of the vacuum. The vacuum is random causeless fluctuations in energy. 'Virtual' subatomic particles pop in and out of existence almost all the time. These subatomic(virtual) particals make up empty space which proves that empty space isn't really empty. The First Law of Thermodynamics(the Law of Conservation of Mass Energy) is subject to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. Matter may pop out of existence and then pop back in, but matter is neither created nor destroyed.
You seem to be completely clueless about how the universe began. For one, the universe didn't come from nothing, the contents always existed, also Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, which is empirically proven, explains how atoms can come out of nothing. Also, if something can't come out of nothing, where did 'god' come from, you can't exempt god from having to provide an explanation for their existence. Also, assuming the universe did come from nothing, how did god something out of nothing, have you ever seen someone making something out of nothing. Also, can you empirically prove the existence of a higher power, if there's no empirical evidence for a higher power then there's no reason to postulate it as an explanation to something you don't know, it's merely a label.
I am bumping it up for you. This is what you said...sentence three to five.
You have just denied that you said this. Well, it's plain enough to see. You wrote it.
I am bumping it up for you. This is what you said...sentence three to five.
You have just denied that you said this. Well, it's plain enough to see. You wrote it.
It's late here. See you tomorrow.
I didn't deny what I said. I was talking about the god hypothesis, not the Uncertainty Principle. Also, it's completely illogical if someone says that something can never come from nothing, but then say that god came out of nowhere or was just always there. If everything has to come from something, then god has to come from something to.
Last edited by agnostic soldier; 10-29-2008 at 07:45 PM..
I didn't deny what I said. I was talking about the god hypothesis, not the Uncertainty Principle. It's completely illogical if someone says that something can never come from nothing, but then say that god came out of nowhere or was just always there. If everything has to come from something, then god has to come from something to.
I didn't deny what I said. I was talking about the god hypothesis, not the Uncertainty Principle. Also, it's completely illogical if someone says that something can never come from nothing, but then say that god came out of nowhere or was just always there. If everything has to come from something, then god has to come from something to.
Nothing ever came from nothing, and nothing ever will.
God did not arrive, he was not 'made'. He has always been. That is why He is God. You may not be able to grasp that, and you are not alone. Many believers might feel similarly, but that is where acceptance of our humanity comes in, and with it, our limited understanding.
Someone wrote, and he was by no means a 'religious' person:
'God can stand being told he does not exist'.
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