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I never knew he said that. I used to watch all his shows although I may have missed some. Did he write that or say it on one of his shows? But yes, he was a poet and a narrator.
It's from his book (his last one, I believe), The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.
Quote:
I'm trying to understand in myself how it works for you. Your first post to which I responded has lit up a lightbulb in my head on the significance of the creator to believers. I realize too that you may well have a greater appreciation for the upliftment than I do because of it. I do hold the workings of the mind and our interaction with nature in great fascination though.
Well, I'm really struggling to express myself on this topic, so I'm hoping you'll forgive me if I quote another couple of individuals who have maybe explained my perspective better than I can.
First, Joseph Wood Crutch, critic and nature essayist, wrote in his book, The Great Chain of Life, "[If] is really is true that [the human] is merely the inevitable culmination of an improbably chemical reaction... then the fact that he has been able... to trace himself back to it is remarkable.... That chemicals which are 'merely material' should come to understand their own nature is a staggering supposition."
Second, LDS scholar, Terryl Givens, wrote in his book, The God Who Weeps, "Astrophysics may give a credible account of the origin of the stars, and Darwin might explain the development of the human eye, but neither can tell us why the night sky strikes us with soul-piercing quietude, or why our mind aches to understand what is so remote from bodily need."
The reasons expressed by these men are kind of why I see "spiritual" as being intrinsically related to "the spirit" of man, which I believe exists apart from the physical workings of the brain, which are themselves so amazing I can hardly even begin to comprehend them.
Yup. I ponder those same questions. But I thought you expressed your thoughts rather well in your post.
I mentioned raising two young birds. I'm now raising another young bird that came to me even younger. Well, this current bird which is now sitting in my palm, causes me to marvel on many levels. It's a living thing with intelligence. It goes through amazing and rapid changes. I stop short of saying it's a spiritual experience though it most certainly touches me. (I nearly said touches my soul).
I lack the skill to express myself adequately so I apologize for my clumsy attempt at it.
No, you're doing ok. After all, others get these feelings and experiences too. What is the topic -relevant point is that secularist/materialists do not reject the idea that all these natural wonders can come about through millions of years of development and nothing magical has to be proposed in order to explain it.
Yup. I ponder those same questions. But I thought you expressed your thoughts rather well in your post.
I mentioned raising two young birds. I'm now raising another young bird that came to me even younger. Well, this current bird which is now sitting in my palm, causes me to marvel on many levels. It's a living thing with intelligence. It goes through amazing and rapid changes. I stop short of saying it's a spiritual experience though it most certainly touches me. (I nearly said touches my soul).
I lack the skill to express myself adequately so I apologize for my clumsy attempt at it.
thats its. That is a spiritual experience. Its is yours. Its mine too. The question is why did you stop short of saying it was your spiritual experience?
When you can say why you stopped short of using the words ... when you don't have to stop short ... then you get it. You are helping the bird be the best bird it can be. In fact, when one understands it, one never buys a bird for a pet a again.
Yup. I ponder those same questions. But I thought you expressed your thoughts rather well in your post.
I mentioned raising two young birds. I'm now raising another young bird that came to me even younger. Well, this current bird which is now sitting in my palm, causes me to marvel on many levels. It's a living thing with intelligence. It goes through amazing and rapid changes. I stop short of saying it's a spiritual experience though it most certainly touches me. (I nearly said touches my soul).
I lack the skill to express myself adequately so I apologize for my clumsy attempt at it.
Most of us do. We lack the words to describe our feelings because they ARE extraordinary, there is nothing to compare it to in our unexamined life. It requires knowledge, introspection, and self-inquiry to understand it and after all that we will still lack the words and skill to express it.
No, you're doing ok. After all, others get these feelings and experiences too. What is the topic -relevant point is that secularist/materialists do not reject the idea that all these natural wonders can come about through millions of years of development and nothing magical has to be proposed in order to explain it.
The real problem is thinking that Atheism and Belief-Bashing is "topic-relevant" to Spirituality...or Religion.
It is only relevant from the standpoint of a antithesis, a criticism, or a notation of the opposing view. Because that is really what Atheism means to that...and that's just a fact.
No more than "Primitive Living & Survivalist Methods" would be "topic relevant" for a forum titled "Ultra Luxury Lifestyles & Capitalist Ultimate-Achievement.
To my point...here is the 1st paragraph of the Opening Post of a thread started just today in the Christianity Sub-Forum titled,
Evangelicals in America:
I used to be one of them...I didn't know back then why I was chosen, maybe the good looks?.. but us fundies were saved and the rest of the world...well, pray for these lost souls. But the lost souls made up for it by having fun here on Earth by sinning , mostly partying, we were stuck watching Pat Robertson on TV. But I grew up and it seems most Evangelicals in this country are still living in that alternate reality. Mods, please don't move this to politics please, it is a statement about the gullibility of religion, not politics.
No other forum I have ever seen, for any subject, had a large percentage of the threads/posts that speak AGAINST the subject it is supposed to be about.
It really is crazy.
Apparently, only Harry Diogenes is able to tell people what spirituality and atheism are despite the OP specifically requesting what it means to each individual poster.
Those curly lines at the end of a sentence means they were questions, as was the use of the word 'why'. I was not explaining spirituality.
And perhaps you should read my second paragraph instead of just attacking. Again -
To watch the sun rise and understand the sun is not actually rising, we are just on a rotating rock with a thin atmosphere circling an average star (along with 5km rocks flying regularly across our orbit); and knowing your position in the universe, how small you are, and how fragile our existence is, why is that not spiritual?
...
No other forum I have ever seen, for any subject, had a large percentage of the threads/posts that speak AGAINST the subject it is supposed to be about.
It really is crazy.
I don't know why this is so hard for some of you to understand.
If this were a sub-forum about Stalin, would all the posts need to be favorable about Stalin?
This is a sub-forum about religion. All the posts don't need to be favorable about religion. And -- in a sense -- atheism is about an unfavorable view of religion.
This is not a praise forum. There are online praise forums. I wouldn't post about atheism on a praise forum.
I presume that the owner of the forum is satisfied with the way it operates. In a sense, that's all you need to know.
I don't know why this is so hard for some of you to understand.
If this were a sub-forum about Stalin, would all the posts need to be favorable about Stalin?
This is a sub-forum about religion. All the posts don't need to be favorable about religion. And -- in a sense -- atheism is about an unfavorable view of religion.
This is not a praise forum. There are online praise forums. I wouldn't post about atheism on a praise forum.
I presume that the owner of the forum is satisfied with the way it operates. In a sense, that's all you need to know.
That you compare Religion with Stalin is illustrative of the mindset of the Atheists on this forum toward the subject of the forum.
A forum for Zoos & Aquatic Theme Parks may not be meant to be a site just to garner compliments for them...but you probably wouldn't see them being acceptable to many of the threads & posts being put up by people who embrace PETA, bashing and speaking negatively about Zoos and marine parks.
It makes it very easy to figure out what Atheism means to Spirituality.
That you compare Religion with Stalin is illustrative of the mindset of the Atheists on this forum toward the subject of the forum.
A forum for Zoos & Aquatic Theme Parks may not be meant to be a site just to garner compliments for them...but you probably wouldn't see them being acceptable to many of the threads & posts being put up by people who embrace PETA, bashing and speaking negatively about Zoos and marine parks.
It makes it very easy to figure out what Atheism means to Spirituality.
come gld, you know better than that.
only theist have pushy irrational people. besides, if atheist have pushy irrational people, I don't believe for a second we do, we are so out numbered by theist we need to shut up and sit down about it because it is devisive.
we shouldn't be pointing out that we are faith based, that we are against science, that we are against talking about other things than a deity, we are against aligning god belief to the system around us. The the next thing to go will be questioning of atheism.
we are, after all, a response to religion.
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