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It's trying to maintain an untenable belief position that does that to a number of theists. I am sure they are decent people very often - as decent as the next. It's the religion that does the damage.
there is nothing reasonable, logical, or rational about making claims such as
"only atheism is honest" "only atheism is logical"
It seems to me belief about a binary dataset is itself, binary. Either you have a belief, or you have the opposite belief.
!A = !(A)
Consider this scenario:
- Do you believe the light is ON in your bedroom?
The answer is yes or no, and you can arrive at your belief however you choose... direct evidence, memory, feeling, whatever. By believe, I mean: find it probable (technically speaking). If you say, “yes” then that is indistinguishable, logically, from NOT believing the light is OFF. God is the light. He is either on or off. If I’m not convinced he’s on, then that’s precisely the same as saying, I’m presently convinced he’s off.
Probability of ON = A%
Probability of OFF = (1-A%)
If you believe it is on (A% > 50%) then you obviously don’t believe it is off (1-A% < 50%).
It would be silly if I asked, “is the light in your bedroom ON?” And you answered, “I doubt it.” Then I said, “so is the light in your bedroom OFF?” And you replied, “I’ve taken no stance on that.”
I’m an atheist, but I worry we spend too much time on semantics to try and qualify uncertainty and/or indifference. This is basic logic, however. Some people might not see the God question as binary, so there is that complication, but I think it is.
Of course, they do. Nobody questions that. Although I do believe there will come a time in the near future when the various and sundry accommodations granted to religions by government will have to be withdrawn. Simply put, government should not be subsidizing, actively or passively, such counter-productive, backward activities.
That I agree with...but that's not how most of your posts sound.
That I agree with...but that's not how most of your posts sound.
Actually, this is the first mention of that I have made. I have also said before that I am not a militant atheist. I do recognize, and its about time, that religion is on its way out. Lots of people still pay lip service to it, but do all they can to avoid the reaper until the very last possible second. If they truly believed paradise or heaven lay on the other side of that last breath, they wouldn't fight it so hard. I certainly wouldn't.
Actually, this is the first mention of that I have made. I have also said before that I am not a militant atheist. I do recognize, and its about time, that religion is on its way out. Lots of people still pay lip service to it, but do all they can to avoid the reaper until the very last possible second. If they truly believed paradise or heaven lay on the other side of that last breath, they wouldn't fight it so hard. I certainly wouldn't.
I think you have no idea how your own posts sound.
It seems to me belief about a binary dataset is itself, binary. Either you have a belief, or you have the opposite belief.
!A = !(A)
Consider this scenario:
- Do you believe the light is ON in your bedroom?
The answer is yes or no, and you can arrive at your belief however you choose... direct evidence, memory, feeling, whatever. By believe, I mean: find it probable (technically speaking). If you say, “yes” then that is indistinguishable, logically, from NOT believing the light is OFF. God is the light. He is either on or off. If I’m not convinced he’s on, then that’s precisely the same as saying, I’m presently convinced he’s off.
Probability of ON = A%
Probability of OFF = (1-A%)
If you believe it is on (A% > 50%) then you obviously don’t believe it is off (1-A% < 50%).
It would be silly if I asked, “is the light in your bedroom ON?” And you answered, “I doubt it.” Then I said, “so is the light in your bedroom OFF?” And you replied, “I’ve taken no stance on that.”
I’m an atheist, but I worry we spend too much time on semantics to try and qualify uncertainty and/or indifference. This is basic logic, however. Some people might not see the God question as binary, so there is that complication, but I think it is.
Very good. But this is when you have the evidence in your face. If someone asks you the question when you are not in the house you might have to assess the probabilities.
"Unless I left it on, it's off. Unless I have misplaced Faith that my wife (1) is faithful."
A non-belief has no existence on its own. Atheism is the belief that there is no god. Why is it so important for you to call it a non-belief?
How you would group believers in your religion can usually be applied to any statement of belief about god.
There are levels of non belief like there are levels in your beliefs. Actually better stated as expressions of a belief. Some of us just lack belief and that's that. Some are not just lack belief, I actually fall in that category about a bible god. I say there is not one. Some are not even worried about the statement of belief about god and are just in it for some other reason.
It seems to me belief about a binary dataset is itself, binary. Either you have a belief, or you have the opposite belief.
!A = !(A)
Consider this scenario:
- Do you believe the light is ON in your bedroom?
The answer is yes or no, and you can arrive at your belief however you choose... direct evidence, memory, feeling, whatever. By believe, I mean: find it probable (technically speaking). If you say, “yes” then that is indistinguishable, logically, from NOT believing the light is OFF. God is the light. He is either on or off. If I’m not convinced he’s on, then that’s precisely the same as saying, I’m presently convinced he’s off.
Probability of ON = A%
Probability of OFF = (1-A%)
If you believe it is on (A% > 50%) then you obviously don’t believe it is off (1-A% < 50%).
It would be silly if I asked, “is the light in your bedroom ON?” And you answered, “I doubt it.” Then I said, “so is the light in your bedroom OFF?” And you replied, “I’ve taken no stance on that.”
I’m an atheist, but I worry we spend too much time on semantics to try and qualify uncertainty and/or indifference. This is basic logic, however. Some people might not see the God question as binary, so there is that complication, but I think it is.
In the simplest sense you would be correct. Either we say "we believe you" or we are non believers. Like the light on the dimmer. "Its not off, so its on." or "its off. that is it." so you guys are correct in that light. lol
Life just is not that binary, I think your position also assume we know what god is. We just don't know. I don't see it as binary because it is not a light switch. It is more like a dimmer switch on the bedroom light. And the amount of light we see is in question. I say "Based on that shadow, I think the light is on." Somebody that doesn't know shadows comes along says "I don't know." then proceeds to put down every line of logic about the shadows.
Its something but we just don't know what it is. From just us being part of a larger system of life all the way up to a cosmic mind. We can say for sure its not deity. Like we can say for sure the light is not off. We are not 100% sure at all.
The example I use is dark matter. I believe something is there because of the data. I just don't know what it is. But in the simplest sense. If you are saying because I don't know then that is disbelief, my question is then why force it into that?
Back to your light example. What we face is "I think the light is on but I am not sure." and we are met with "You are wrong there is no proof the light is on." Or, "Those "light on" believers are so rude can you just say the light is off, it doesn't matter in the end."
Or my personal favorite. "Ok, it might be on, but could you keep it to your self and not question us. We are n the same team and after the same goal."
Last edited by Arach Angle; 02-16-2021 at 04:00 AM..
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