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No, submitting to God's will is NOT the same as accepting what is! The concept of "what is" is confusing. We can recognize God's will because it is mysterious and divine and miraculous, often in ironic and surprising ways.
The key thing to remember is that God is SMARTER than you!
Question: Do you really, in your mind and intellect, actually believe any of the above? The reason I ask is because it just isn't so. IMHO most "believers" play at or pretend to believe, but, in this day and age, don't truly believe much if any of it.
If they did, they wouldn't fight death so hard. They would quickly resign to, if not welcome it while singing "I'm off to see my maker, the wonderful maker of me" sung to the Wizard of Oz melody.
And when a fellow-believer dies "before his time" they wouldn't call it sad or a tragedy. They'd be jealous.
Last edited by Salty Water; 07-09-2021 at 10:19 AM..
If this forum were about world history or ruthless rulers, abuse of power, imperialism and any of those kinds of topics, then no doubt we'd be "bashing" all that wrong-doing just the same, but this happens to be a forum about "Religion and Spirituality" and this thread about submitting to God's will...
So, it's about religion here and not all other wrong-doing anyone might decide to bash. I mean right?!?
That sort of argumentative tactic is commonly referred to as "what aboutism." About that too, "two wrongs don't make a right!"
Except that many here claim: "Religion" is the worst thing, biggest insult, and the top threat, in human history.
So...comparisons are prompted by that...and reasonably proffered.
There is a thing in this world (legal in most places) that some make a "choice" to do, that I think is the most evil and barbaric thing ever...and has killed more human individuals than all wars and/or theology based killings combined. But I am not on forums for that going off on those people...because they subjectively "believe" it is a okay thing.
Except that many here claim: "Religion" is the worst thing, biggest insult, and the top threat, in human history.
So...comparisons are prompted by that...and reasonably proffered.
There is a thing in this world (legal in most places) that some make a "choice" to do, that I think is the most evil and barbaric thing ever...and has killed more human individuals than all wars and/or theology based killings combined. But I am not on forums for that going off on those people...because they subjectively "believe" it is a okay thing.
It is one my opinions that humanity will come to and end when the radical factions of a particular religion, who pray to the city of their first carnage, gets nuclear weapons. Then it will be shouts of A.A. (not Arach) as the mushroom clouds vaporize hundreds of millions. Those that survive will be back in the age of Fred and Barney back in Bedrock. Dangerous enough for you, old chum?
Except that many here claim: "Religion" is the worst thing, biggest insult, and the top threat, in human history.
So...comparisons are prompted by that...and reasonably proffered.
There is a thing in this world (legal in most places) that some make a "choice" to do, that I think is the most evil and barbaric thing ever...and has killed more human individuals than all wars and/or theology based killings combined. But I am not on forums for that going off on those people...because they subjectively "believe" it is a okay thing.
The rhetoric and all the many "styles" people exhibit in this forum is not all that important compared to the truth of these matters. Is it? The truth and the rationale that justifies one's beliefs about the truth and/or about the falsehoods. Right?
Sure seems to me you focus on what you do, because it isn't really the truth or the facts of these matters that you can address a bit more intelligently. You prefer the drama.
We're all in this forum for whatever our reason(s). You too. Seems your primary reason is to relieve a bad case of heartburn about people who are not so positively opinionated about religion. Okay, but we get that already!
The rhetoric and all the many "styles" people exhibit in this forum is not all that important compared to the truth of these matters. Is it? The truth and the rationale that justifies one's beliefs about the truth and/or about the falsehoods. Right?
Sure seems to me you focus on what you do, because it isn't really the truth or the facts of these matters that you can address a bit more intelligently. You prefer the drama.
We're all in this forum for whatever our reason(s). You too. Seems your primary reason is to relieve a bad case of heartburn about people who are not so positively opinionated about religion. Okay, but we get that already!
Except that many here claim: "Religion" is the worst thing, biggest insult, and the top threat, in human history.
So...comparisons are prompted by that...and reasonably proffered.
Then attack them instead of pretending we all think this. But where is the fun in THAT?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
There is a thing in this world (legal in most places) that some make a "choice" to do, that I think is the most evil and barbaric thing ever...and has killed more human individuals than all wars and/or theology based killings combined. But I am not on forums for that going off on those people...because they subjectively "believe" it is a okay thing.
Question: Do you really, in your mind and intellect, actually believe any of the above? The reason I ask is because it just isn't so. IMHO most "believers" play at or pretend to believe, but, in this day and age, don't truly believe much if any of it.
If they did, they wouldn't fight death so hard. They would quickly resign to, if not welcome it while singing "I'm off to see my maker, the wonderful maker of me" sung to the Wizard of Oz melody.
And when a fellow-believer dies "before his time" they wouldn't call it sad or a tragedy. They'd be jealous.
This exposes a lack of depth to your considerations, Salty. The death of a person removes them from this existence and those left behind suffer a premature loss. The sadness is a response to that loss.
This exposes a lack of depth to your considerations, Salty. The death of a person removes them from this existence and those left behind suffer a premature loss. The sadness is a response to that loss.
True, but only in small part, and in any case going to the heaven they say they believe in should overcome the sadness of their loss.
Every life is precious? If they believed life on earth is just a sort of pre-screening for heaven, they'd say something like Every life is a pain-in-the-ass obstacle to be gotten through on the way to heaven.
But, alas, they don't say that. More importantly, they don't act that.
Summary,
They way believers ACT belies that they don't really believe the heaven malarkey. They mouth the words, to be sure, but don't act the act. They fight death, including their own, every step and stumble along the way, belying that they don't really believe what they say they do. They pretend right up to the point where the rubber meets the road. Then it's backpeddle Flank speed.
This exposes a lack of depth to your considerations, Salty. The death of a person removes them from this existence and those left behind suffer a premature loss. The sadness is a response to that loss.
Coincidentally, I've just finished reading a book about the ancient history of Central and South America...
"Like other Mesamerican peoples, such as the Zapotec, Totonac, Teotihuacán and Aztec, the Maya derived a number of religious and cultural traits–as well as their number system and their famous calendar–from the Olmec."
We probably all know about the many thousands of human sacrifices these people believed were necessary to appease the gods, but did you know many of the sacrifices believed they were fortunate to be chosen for sacrifice? Some even asked to be sacrificed, because they believed as Salty describes. Essentially the belief they were going to a "better place."
All to say let's not be too hasty or high-horsed to suggest others lack a depth of understanding. Especially when it comes to all of human history rather than just our own little world today. Of course ancient history is not present day, but the story of Jim Jones is not all that ancient. Now is it?
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