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I think all cultures have something to be gained and to learn from others. After all, isn't most American popular music based on blues and jazz (with some country admixture)? Life would be very boring if groups had to hold their own lane.
Exactly. And much of folk and country is from English Sea Shanties. Yes there are examples of inappropriate cultural appropriation however the ones that are not clear cut deemed to be glossed over. And making money from it seems to be the defining aspect of appropriation whereas I think their are other gains appropriation may be used for that do not involve money.
If you are lost in deep snow how much appreciation of Inuit culture do you need in order to build one of the shelters to survive? And are only American or British culture allowed to be used by others without appreciate those cultures.
And can we use accupuncture for medical reasons without needing to know anything other than it works for some things. I'd using it any different than using cold packs or a pharmaceutical? Or of an Indigenous individual tells you that eating plant X will fix your medical problem is there anything else you need to know before you can use that plant.
I still do not understand why if a North American woman teaches a Yoga class and gets paid for her time it is cultural appropriation but idlf she volunteered it is not. Yoga and aTia Chia have good medical and fitness qualities that should be as available to all as a Western exercise or fitness regime. Or cross country skiing my Chinese or Indians
The bold is your opinion and is not any different in character from the fundamentalist Christians who want to impart their beliefs to those they offer to help and insist upon it. Not everyone who might APPRECIATE the benefits of a specific practice is interested in the "wisdom" or "knowledge" that originated it. Should they be deprived of the benefits because they lack interest in the cultural "wisdom"???
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Originally Posted by cb2008
Is this what you are objecting to?
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carries a lot meaning in form and attitude, you would be benefit from learning it from someone who has herself got training from masters, honors the tradition and understands it and will impart all that knowledge to you.
How different would it be if you were learning to play a classical piece on the piano or the violin? You are not just learning to play an instrument you are also learning the thought behind the music, the mood, about the composer, the time and space he occupied, what influence he had, and what he is trying to convey? All this flows into the performance of the piece he has composed. If you did not learn all this yes, you WILL be deprived of the benefit of this knowledge that will transfer to your playing because you lack the cultural "wisdom."
While you probably understand this you resist the idea that learning yoga too has all the cultural wisdom of breath control that refines the mind, how your brain learns what your body is trying to do, and how you feel every inch of your skin and muscle as you hold the pose, tighten your knee and open the back, the benefits that accrue to your health and well being. You can learn hot yoga and do it the sound of a rock band, but you will definitely be deprived of the goodness of the "cultural" wisdom inherent in it. It is your loss.
This is why mindless appropriation of culture and monetizing it deprives all of us of the beauty inherent in it. This does not mean one should not rock yoga to hip hop, but know you are not doing yoga, you are doing something else.
I do not object to anything except the asinine claim that APPRECIATING the benefits of some cultural practices without adopting the entire zeitgeist behind it is "cultural appropriation"! What you are going on about is entirely YOUR opinion based on negative inferences about the motives of others who appreciate the benefits of some cultural practices.
Your concern over monetizing and earning money unwarrantedly introduces cupidity and avarice into the issue. As you know, I do not believe ANY money should be charged or made from spreading spiritual wisdom and enlightenment, period.
Exactly. And much of folk and country is from English Sea Shanties. Yes there are examples of inappropriate cultural appropriation however the ones that are not clear cut deemed to be glossed over. And making money from it seems to be the defining aspect of appropriation whereas I think their are other gains appropriation may be used for that do not involve money.
If you are lost in deep snow how much appreciation of Inuit culture do you need in order to build one of the shelters to survive? And are only American or British culture allowed to be used by others without appreciate those cultures.
And can we use accupuncture for medical reasons without needing to know anything other than it works for some things. I'd using it any different than using cold packs or a pharmaceutical? Or of an Indigenous individual tells you that eating plant X will fix your medical problem is there anything else you need to know before you can use that plant.
I still do not understand why if a North American woman teaches a Yoga class and gets paid for her time it is cultural appropriation but idlf she volunteered it is not. Yoga and aTia Chia have good medical and fitness qualities that should be as available to all as a Western exercise or fitness regime. Or cross country skiing my Chinese or Indians
Again you failed to answer the big question.
Yoga and Tai Chi seemed to have morphed to mainstream to my understanding. There was a thread about a school system I think in Minnesota that started using yoga to calm hyper or ADAC students with great success but then a group of Christian parents objected because it was supposedly teaching Hinduism and the did not want devil worship taught to their children. And your military uses yoga to help members with PTSD.
So do cultural aspects ever enter mainstream or do they remain away from those not wishing to learn the culture behind it? Do college kids require learning about Iroquois culture before they are allowed to play lacrosse? Or Arabic culture to use their numerals or algebra?
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At what point does an activity or a form of music leave it's culture and become mainstream?
Does cultural aspects ever enter mainstream and becomes available for everyone ?
What is mainstream depends on the location. In America it is white, christian, English speaking.
In that respect, no yoga has not become mainstream, and thus the objection by parents. I am taking yoga classes in my senior center and the instructor who claims to be teaching for 25 or 30 years ends the session with peace, shalom! That is fine but why not Shanti also? Not because the students will object, I know, because he wants it to be "accessible" to his white students. I have also taken yoga classes from a a white woman who instructs at length about the pose she will teach that day and uses both the English translation and the Sanskirt name for the asana. Here she id adding to the student's knowledge.
Besides why should it become mainstream? Is French Cuisine mainstream? Is Flemenco mainstream? Why is it not possible to appreciate culture in its own location (not country but its roots), with its own beauty and meaning? Why should everything become Americanized? There is a lot of influence of Indian cuisine in the best restaurants by great chefs. The best of them always explain the background of their dish, the origin, and the ingredients, they don't just claim they invented it.
I dont know the connection you are making about Lacrosse and Iroquois but I know Native Americans have been opposing the name Washington Redskins for the football team for the longest time, because it is so deeply offensive. It has finally been dropped but with a lot of opposition and criticism from white fans who could not see what is wrong with it. I think some do know and like it, racists that they are.
Finally after all this conversation if you are still puzzled, I have to believe you simply have some kind of resistance to accepting it.
I am done with this off topic topic.
I still do not understand why if a North American woman teaches a Yoga class and gets paid for her time it is cultural appropriation but idlf she volunteered it is not. s
Nobody said that, I certainly did not, so you can explain your own question.
What is mainstream depends on the location. In America it is white, christian, English speaking.
In that respect, no yoga has not become mainstream, and thus the objection by parents. I am taking yoga classes in my senior center and the instructor who claims to be teaching for 25 or 30 years ends the session with peace, shalom! That is fine but why not Shanti also? Not because the students will object, I know, because he wants it to be "accessible" to his white students. I have also taken yoga classes from a a white woman who instructs at length about the pose she will teach that day and uses both the English translation and the Sanskirt name for the asana. Here she id adding to the student's knowledge.
Besides why should it become mainstream? Is French Cuisine mainstream? Is Flemenco mainstream? Why is it not possible to appreciate culture in its own location (not country but its roots), with its own beauty and meaning? Why should everything become Americanized? There is a lot of influence of Indian cuisine in the best restaurants by great chefs. The best of them always explain the background of their dish, the origin, and the ingredients, they don't just claim they invented it.
I dont know the connection you are making about Lacrosse and Iroquois but I know Native Americans have been opposing the name Washington Redskins for the football team for the longest time, because it is so deeply offensive. It has finally been dropped but with a lot of opposition and criticism from white fans who could not see what is wrong with it. I think some do know and like it, racists that they are.
Finally after all this conversation if you are still puzzled, I have to believe you simply have some kind of resistance to accepting it.
I am done with this off topic topic.
Redskins is a derogatory term to describe Native American natives. Nothing cultural appropriation about it just a racist term. I believe it was. First used about the Beothunks of Newfoundland who painted their skins red.
Lots of conversation but you still have not even approached the edges of the topic only those things that are obvious. But I do not wish to be guilty of some sort of cultural appropriation do I will cease doing yoga as it is not part of North America culture and supposedly always be foreign to us.
Again you failed to answer the big question. At what point does an activity or a form of music leave it's culture and become mainstream?
Yoga and Tai Chi seemed to have morphed to mainstream to my understanding. There was a thread about a school system I think in Minnesota that started using yoga to calm hyper or ADAC students with great success but then a group of Christian parents objected because it was supposedly teaching Hinduism and the did not want devil worship taught to their children. And your military uses yoga to help members with PTSD.
So do cultural aspects ever enter mainstream or do they remain away from those not wishing to learn the culture behind it? Do college kids require learning about Iroquois culture before they are allowed to play lacrosse? Or Arabic culture to use their numerals or algebra?
Does cultural aspects ever enter mainstream and becomes available for everyone ?
have you read up on cultural appropriation, and when and why it is objectionable? it is not a one liner simplistic cut and dried answer.
I do not object to anything except the asinine claim that APPRECIATING the benefits of some cultural practices without adopting the entire zeitgeist behind it is "cultural appropriation"! What you are going on about is entirely YOUR opinion based on negative inferences about the motives of others who appreciate the benefits of some cultural practices. Your concern over monetizing and earning money unwarrantedly introduces cupidity and avarice into the issue. As you know, I do not believe ANY money should be charged or made from spreading spiritual wisdom and enlightenment, period.
asking you also the same question. have you spent some time and effort in even seeking to understand what cultural appropriation is, and why it is problematic? it doesn't sound like you have. so if all you want to do is deny and rant, then that is not reasonable discussion. it is just ranting and spewing words like "asinine." from your posts, it is evident and demonstrated that you don't even care to understand the difference between "appropriation" and "appreciation." so rational discussion with you on this topic is not possible.
have you read up on cultural appropriation, and when and why it is objectionable? it is not a one liner simplistic cut and dried answer.
But I was the one who said it was not clwar cut and wss jumped on. I know whatvis ibvious cultural appropiatiin and why is it objectionable. What I do not know and noone has been willing to explain are the non obvious ones that are debated andvhowvtovtell those iffy ones if they are objectionable or not. I even used an example if hearing two NativeAmericans discussing if sone certain thing was cultural appropiatiin and had oposing opiniond and the answer I was given is that minorities know what it is. So I was left to decide which of those two Native Americans is a minority and which is not.I
So we agree that it is not clear cut and dried. I cannot rwad up about it and have my questikns answered. This topic was sideltracked when CB2008 stated that practicing Yoga was cultural appropiation if one does not study the spiritual and cultural aspecrs of yoga. Seeing as there are other exercises onecan do without dwelling into something not needed to benefit from it I would best not do yoga anymore. Indigeous people are nitvtelling us that we need to learn about theircspiritual and cultural aspects in order to canoe or kayak
As long as others are only willing to discuss obvious examples no transfer of knowlwdge occurs.
I still do not understand why if a North American woman teaches a Yoga class and gets paid for her time it is cultural appropriation but idlf she volunteered it is not. Yoga and aTia Chia have good medical and fitness qualities that should be as available to all as a Western exercise or fitness regime. Or cross country skiing my Chinese or Indians
Just for people who want a "grievance" culture is it cultural appropriation.
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