Atheists and Skeptics Have the Truth. Christians Do NOT. (prophets, agnostic, Jerusalem)
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So let me understand why you feel this way. Why do you feel that the fact there isn't a nickel's worth of historic evidence to prove Jesus was a real person for someone to base their faith on amounts to squat in your eyes?
LOL You're not going to lure me into your web of nonsense. I know you need to keep trying - have to, must keep trying - because that's your obsession. You can't stop, and it pushes you along the periphery of the cliff. I own you nothing, and nothing will you receive. But keep trying though, because it's fun. And make sure to continue the boldfaced words.
And let's see.... I've been on the forum years less than you, with about half the number of your posts, and yet I have more than double the reputation of you. Yep, that's a sweet reality to be savored. Cheers, as I pour a nice tasty drink in celebration.
LOL You're not going to lure me into your web of nonsense. I know you need to keep trying - have to, must keep trying - because that's your obsession. You can't stop, and it pushes you along the periphery of the cliff. I own you nothing, and nothing will you receive. But keep trying though, because it's fun.
Thoreau, it's clear from your tone you have extreme anger issues. You resent me deeply. I'm just trying to be civil and find out why you get so angry at me simply because I point out the truth that historians left no evidence for Jesus' existence that a potential Christian convert could base his conversion on, and the manner in which churchmen lie through their teeth telling newbies there is more evidence for Jesus than there is for Julius Caesar. That IS a lie, I'm sure you know. That's why the post read Atheists and skeptics have the truth, Christians do not. Because an atheist like myself is telling you a truth and you refuse to hear it, preferring instead to hear the lies of churchmen. I don't believe in Jesus, but the gospel words attributed to him are so right:
Men refuse to come to the truth, preferring instead the darkness of ignorance.
Thoreau, it's clear from your tone you have extreme anger issues. You resent me deeply. I'm just trying to be civil and find out why you get so angry at me simply because I point out the truth that historians left no evidence for Jesus' existence that a potential Christian convert could base his conversion on, and the manner in which churchmen lie through their teeth telling newbies there is more evidence for Jesus than there is for Julius Caesar. That IS a lie, I'm sure you know. That's why the post read Atheists and skeptics have the truth, Christians do not. Because an atheist like myself is telling you a truth and you refuse to hear it, preferring instead to hear the lies of churchmen. I don't believe in Jesus, but the gospel words attributed to him are so right:
Men refuse to come to the truth, preferring instead the darkness of ignorance.
If other non-believers have converted to Christianity, I'd think you'd be curious as to why they did...
...instead of simply dubbing them as unintelligent for doing so. I'd be asking myself, "What do these obviously intelligent converts see that *I* don't see?"
If other non-believers have converted to Christianity, I'd think you'd be curious as to why they did...
...instead of simply dubbing them as unintelligent for doing so. I'd be asking myself, "What do these obviously intelligent converts see that *I* don't see?"
I must be missing something in the post you responded to. I don't see the word (or synonym thereof) "unintelligent".
If other non-believers have converted to Christianity, I'd think you'd be curious as to why they did...
...instead of simply dubbing them as unintelligent for doing so. I'd be asking myself, "What do these obviously intelligent converts see that *I* don't see?"
Mink, if you wanted to buy a house and I told you I had a beautiful house and I could sell it to you for $10,000 but you had to send me the money in cash sight unseen and trust that I'd mail you the deed would you send me the money? Simple yes or no?
Mink, if you wanted to buy a house and I told you I had a beautiful house and I could sell it to you for $10,000 but you had to send me the money in cash sight unseen and trust that I'd mail you the deed would you send me the money? Simple yes or no?
Doesn't even dignify an answer, thrill.
The atheists who converted to Christianity didn't do so "sight unseen." They researched. Talked to others. Researched some more.
There's plenty of evidence for Christianity. But unless you're actually willing to open your mind and look at it,
you won't see it.
I must be missing something in the post you responded to. I don't see the word (or synonym thereof) "unintelligent".
Yeah, "unintelligent" is Mink's word, not mind.
I see it more as people being led to a chasm with no bridge by unscrupulous churchmen who are telling them to believe on faith that if they just step off the edge they will walk to the other side like Jesus did on Lake Galilee. And I'm furiously waving my arms and yelling, "Don't believe their lies. You are going to die if you step off that edge!" And the people allow themselves to be led off the edge anyway because they trusted the churchmen's promise, and then I have to watch these poor hapless souls as they plunge headlong into the ravine. It's a horrible feeling not being able to save them when they believe the church's lies that Jesus was a real man who died for their sins and then rose from the dead.
I see it more as people being led to a chasm with no bridge by unscrupulous churchmen who are telling them to believe on faith that if they just step off the edge they will walk to the other side like Jesus did on Lake Galilee. And I'm furiously waving my arms and yelling, "Don't believe their lies. You are going to die if you step off that edge!" And the people allow themselves to be led off the edge anyway because they trusted the churchmen's promise, and then I have to watch these poor hapless souls as they plunge headlong into the ravine. It's a horrible feeling not being able to save them when they believe the church's lies that Jesus was a real man who died for their sins and then rose from the dead.
That you think that you are more perceptive or aware than the vast majority of the world is not just rank arrogance and hubris, it's indicative of how much you don't know what you don't know.
But, really...you are just tweaked that so many others have figured out what you are not able to, even though you tried.
So you go into long negative diatribes to try to convince yourself that they don't really have it over you the way they do.
I agree with you on one level. I do think that most historians believe that Jesus was a real human being.
I disagree with you on an assumption than I think you probably make: that a historian coming to the conclusion that Jesus was a real person means that the tales of the bible about Jesus are true.
The best lesson regarding this manufacture of history can be seen in the case of the history this nation with George Washington. Many of the things we were taught about Washington throughout our public schooling have since been debunked. And those things happened (or didn't happen) only a bit over 200 years ago, and the various miraculous things that Jesus supposedly did happened over 2,000 years ago...meaning no substantial evidence. Even if you could prove that Jesus was crucified, there is certainly no clear historical evidence that he rose on the third day, ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of god. And, most of the christians here on the site admit that -- perhaps accidentally -- when they tell us how important FAITH is.
I understand that.
Thrillobyte is saying that he knows more than the expert historians on the existence of Jesus. The historians are vouching for Jesus as having existed, not necessarily that he was divine. Thrillobyte was claiming that Jesus did not exist.
I do believe that Jesus existed and I do believe that he was divine from my own personal relationship with him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8
I've seen Christians acknowledge that religion is man made so we're not that far apart with some of them.
Religion is at least in part human-made. It is largely up to each human to find ways to create a relationship with God. And the relationship and experiences I have are likely to be at least somewhat unique to me alone due to my end of the unique relationship with God.
Even on the more macro level it is humans spreading it and organizing it and to some extent creating systems. It was "Paul" who helped spread the love of Jesus after the crucifixion. It is the pope that to some degree sets a lot of policies for other Catholics.
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