Atheists and Skeptics Have the Truth. Christians Do NOT. (worship, Pilate, Jewish)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There are numerous relics including his supposed foreskin LOL. All fake if course. Why would anyone expect anything like that to have survived for 2000 years?
Apparently 16 foreskins. And I believe there are 5 skulls of his maternal grandmother, as well as the 6 corpses of the 3 wise men.
Modern Greek of my childhood, so 'do your homework', 'tidy your room', 'do not connect your brother to the power supply' are no problem; but when we went to Greece, my Mother (born in Athens) had to arrange things like car hire and insurance. Also Koine Greek, the language of the New Testament, which has a large overlap with modern Greek, so I do not class it as my third language.
English is my third language.
I also learnt some Russian and Mandarin Chinese at school, although I have forgot most of what I was taught.
THIS is the TRUTH: There is NO evidence whatsoever to support Jesus or the apostles ever existing. THAT is the TRUTH.
I agree with this.
I am effected by the MANY stories, tho, of people I know that have encountered Jesus, (Ah, what?),
that are regular sane people!
Then, the astounding encounters of such love and forgiveness in these NDEs! Many not
realizing till afterwards this loving being was indeed, Jesus....and these were atheists!
The famous Howard Storm story is just one!
LOL....I figure if Jesus can be like this with them...I REALLY have a shot!
You do realize this is Paul (1 Corinthians) saying science, logic, mathematics, philosophy, debate, all rational tools, are for fools, whereas interpreting scripture and having revelations is true wisdom?
Now I would appreciate from the Christians a point by point assessment of what I wrote instead of the usual general cuts and jabs with no attention to the details.
[
I appreciate all the time you spent on research and your commitment to logic and facts.
The inherent problem here is for many people historical facts don’t really matter when their
relationship to God/Jesus/Spirit is EXPERIENCIAL, not based on man’s accounting of it or evidentiary facts.
The closest I can come to a similarity is a biology professor in college I had spent weeks proving to us that LOVE was actually only a biological human evolution in protein synthesis that evolved for enhancement of survival. When we feel love, it’s just protein synthesizing.
Okay, for someone who has never EXPERIENCED the love of their child, their husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend, their parents, their dog — then that FACT seems relevant. But for those of us who have EXPERIENCED profound love — well, the protein synthesis FACT doesn’t matter because we know that LOVE is EXPERIENCED on a different plane than the mind and the factual analytical level.
Sorry, That is as close to the God and spiritual experience as I can explain — it transcends religions, history, or facts.
But unless you’ve EXPERIENCED it, it doesn’t hold up to logic and facts.
Few reasons (not an attack, just a surmise)
For the intellectual conversation that is lacking in A&A?
Fear of vanishing into meaningless blur if no noise is made?
Do the most noise even if only for negative attention?
An opportunity to take out all frustration on somebody, anybody?
Feel free to add to the list.
Mleccha with ugra karma burning inside and trying to quench it with pseudo philosophical ramblings? In no time, he WILL find the TRUTH. As it was said, that there is no worse shock for an atheist, than to find, after body died, that he is still existing. And that will be not a good existence....
I agree with this.
I am effected by the MANY stories, tho, of people I know that have encountered Jesus, (Ah, what?),
that are regular sane people!
Then, the astounding encounters of such love and forgiveness in these NDEs! Many not
realizing till afterwards this loving being was indeed, Jesus....and these were atheists!
The famous Howard Storm story is just one!
LOL....I figure if Jesus can be like this with them...I REALLY have a shot!
Why would Jesus care about what a person believes or doesn't believe before He helps them? Even as humans we are capable of extending great compassion to others without knowing a thing about them outside of the fact they are suffering. Even being despised by the other doesn't stop some people from extending compassion toward them. Why would Jesus be below humans in that regard?
Thrillobyte is saying that he knows more than the expert historians on the existence of Jesus. The historians are vouching for Jesus as having existed, not necessarily that he was divine. Thrillobyte was claiming that Jesus did not exist.
See, this is what I mean about Christians? They simply don't read or study. In fact, I think most secular people outside Christianity would question their ability to even reason and discern. By and large, Christians are lower on the IQ scale than secular non-religious people, that's a fact. They have absolutely no desire to get beyond the propaganda they regularly consume either from the Bible or their pastors and televangelists. Here is TRUTH NO 1 from my OP NO 1 below. And I've stated it more than a dozen times here and elsewhere:
"Truth No 1: there is NO historical evidence for Jesus son of God or the apostles, period. Despite all the lies Christians put forth about there being so much evidence for Jesus in the historical record it is just more lies and half-truths disguised as truth to keep the Big Lie afloat. The truth is there simply is no historical evidence a god man named Jesus as described in the gospels ever lived nor did the 12 men he supposedly gathered around him and walked with them for 3 years before being crucified. NONE of this is supported by historical fact. No historian mentions all the supernatural events that the gospels claim occurred after Christ's supposed crucifixion, even though the Gospels claim Jesus' fame spread far beyond the borders of Israel. There may be a possibility an ordinary man who was a Jewish zealot was crucified by the Romans for sedition against Rome but again no historian mentions one."
I'm always careful to distinguish between the Jesus of the Bible AND an ordinary Jesus who was crucified like any criminal who ran afoul of the Romans upon which the Jesus legend Son of God miracles worker savior of the world legend was based upon. I readily acknowledge there may have been an ordinary man who died on a cross, was buried and turned to dust and it was this person or persons upon which the Jesus myth was based.
NO historian outside the biased Christian circle believes the Jesus of the Bible was a real person. WHY? Because NO historian of the period mentions a miracle working Son of God named Jesus.
Atheists and skeptics have the truth on their side. Christians do not.
Well with respect to your "truth 1 & 2" I do not see the whole historicist / mythicist debate as productive. I happen to be a mythicist but if the historicists turn out to be correct, it presents zero problem for me as an atheist. This question is just an interesting side show because the real issue for devout Christians is whether "Bible Jesus, the Miracle-Working God-Man" existed, not just whether there was an actual itinerant Jewish preacher named Jesus bar Joseph who is the basis for the mythos. Historicists do not address that. They are arguing only that the canonical gospels are "based on" a real historical individual. The fabulist accounts are not addressed by the historicist / mythicist debate.
If other non-believers have converted to Christianity, I'd think you'd be curious as to why they did...
...instead of simply dubbing them as unintelligent for doing so. I'd be asking myself, "What do these obviously intelligent converts see that *I* don't see?"
But
Jews convert to Christianity
Christians convert to Judaism
Christians convert to Islam
Muslims convert to Christianity
A conversion to one religion is not proof that it is true. Otherwise how could you explain Christians, Jews or Muslums becoming atheists? Or atheists becoming Jews, Muslims or any religion other than Christian? Are all thse converts not also intelligent?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
