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Your post is a massive copy and paste, Gold. Well done.
You're just comparing apples to oranges. What you provided is not evidence, it is just modern day scholars offering their opinions pro and con on whether Jesus was real. Obviously, you praise the pro people and insult the con people but again, even the people like Acharya and Tim Freke and Doherty who are mythers are not offering any evidence for their opinions anymore than Grant and Fox are.
Grant never once offers any scholars or historians contemporary to Jesus or afterward that say, "I saw Jesus Christ in the flesh and witnessed the miracles and talked with the apostles..." It's just their opinions and as you know opinions are a dime a thousand. Offer me some evidence to show anything I said is not truthful. I said that if God really wanted us to believe Jesus was real he would have offered a mountain of evidence from the 1st century so insurmountable that I and other skeptics could not possibly refute it. You failed.
After you have fully checked out all of the offerings by those I listed, and noted all of what they had to offer...then you present YOUR research that counters it.
It's you challenging them.
Considering that any one of them has far greater cred than you...I'd say their finding would rule over anything you have.
It is YOU that only offers opinion...with no research you have done to back it.
It appears very few actual scholars agrees with your position.
You all always demand "credentials" and "citations"...so, let's see yours compared to any of them.
If you have it like that...let's see it. I challenge you.
I believe YOU have failed against the actual noted (with awards), published, people I listed.
So...whataya got?!!
After you have fully checked out all of the offerings by those I listed, and noted all of what they had to offer...then you present YOUR research that counters it.
It's you challenging them.
Considering that any one of them has far greater cred than you...I'd say their finding would rule over anything you have.
It is YOU that only offers opinion...with no research you have done to back it.
It appears very few actual scholars agrees with your position.
You all always demand "credentials" and "citations"...so, let's see yours compared to any of them.
If you have it like that...let's see it. I challenge you.
I believe YOU have failed against the actual noted (with awards), published, people I listed.
So...whataya got?!!
This is what I've got:
I'm not going to get into a slugfest with you over this. I said what I had to say on the matter in my last post to you. Basically your stuff is just MODERN-DAY scholars offering their OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS and BIASES, etc on the matter of "Was Jesus real". None of it is evidence to support your position Jesus was real. I've stated numerous times I acknowledge a person upon whom the Jesus mythical figure was based may have indeed existed but there is no written evidence for such. Certainly there's no historical evidence a real or mythical person named Jesus Christ ever lived.
"Archaeological evidence of Jesus does not exist.
There is no definitive physical or archaeological evidence of the existence of Jesus."
If you want to believe in a mythical god for which no evidence exists you have every freedom to do so. That's my last word on the matter to you because it's impossible to carry on an intelligent conversation with you.
You are applying expectations that apply to a more modern era and more widespread awareness of what is happening in the world around us. We are talking about something that happened in a primitive era in a very remote backwater of the vast Roman Empire, Thill. Historians at the time were focused on the big main accomplishments of the Empire not on some piddling backwater. It was not until much later when Christians made such an impact that it eventually became an issue.
Again I ask:
Mystic, if God had wanted us to believe Jesus is his divine son sent to earth to die for our sins, wouldn't God have left a mountain of evidence proving this that would be so compelling that no one in their right mind could argue otherwise? Simple yes or no, Mystic?
I'm not going to get into a slugfest with you over this. I said what I had to say on the matter in my last post to you. Basically your stuff is just MODERN-DAY scholars offering their OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS and BIASES, etc on the matter of "Was Jesus real". None of it is evidence to support your position Jesus was real. I've stated numerous times I acknowledge a person upon whom the Jesus mythical figure was based may have indeed existed but there is no written evidence for such. Certainly there's no historical evidence a real or mythical person named Jesus Christ ever lived.
"Archaeological evidence of Jesus does not exist.
There is no definitive physical or archaeological evidence of the existence of Jesus."
If you want to believe in a mythical god for which no evidence exists you have every freedom to do so. That's my last word on the matter to you because it's impossible to carry on an intelligent conversation with you.
Yeah. Probably for the best if you don't get into a slugfest against that list...since you have ended up like Morrison here: https://youtu.be/125d6Ws9PRA
Since you have NUTHIN but your opinion...YOU have FAILED against the actual research by the award winning, best-selling published scholars on the subject.
You are just blowing smoke (and your mocking insult), and nothing else...as usual.
Do you have any credentials or citations at all?
You were the one with the big claims and issuing "dares".
But the second you come up against anything of any merit whatsoever...you fold like a house of cards.
With all your crowing and strutting all this time, I'd have figured you'd have more than NUTHIN...but I guess not.
Skeptics say: SHOW me; THEN I'll believe!
God says: BELIEVE; THEN I'll show you.
Can't really get much simpler than that.
Yep, that's exactly how it works too. There's truth right there, though it will get ignored, of course. The universe laughs at what is so simple, yet the proud and the rigid reject. Even Taoism gets it right in being in unison and agreement with nature, rather than being rigid and fighting against it (which never works). It's hilarious to watch though! I absolutely love this thread, and what it reveals. No response is needed. The lost just shoot themselves in the foot for all to see, over and over again.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 09-02-2022 at 04:13 PM..
TRUTH: There isn't a shred of evidence the apostles even lived, much less died for their faith. Not a single secular historian in any century up to 500 CE even mentions the apostles. The truth is history says none of the apostles existed. They, like Jesus, are mythical creations like characters in a novel. It would be impossible to trace a single event involving them if historians don't even mention them. Churchmen like Sean MacDowell who wrote a book on the apostles' demise (and made a lot of $$$$ on it) relies wholly on church tradition--legends that arose over the centuries about Jesus and his apostles--as his source material for his book. It would be much like using the 7 volumes of Harry Potter to determine what happened to Ron Weasley and Hermione Granger.
This is yet another example of how the Church used lies, deceit, fabrications and speculation to perpetuate a myth that benefited their religion.
Once again, I am a skeptic and I have the TRUTH on my side.
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