Calling all atheists/agnostics and people interested in learning about atheism/agnosticism (souls, church)

[.....think]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

Hmmmm....

My only question is this:

"What are we going to talk about?"

The only thing that, by definition, constitutes an Atheist is a disbelief in God(s). So, my main objection is that there is no doctrinal format to make the forum as lively as the Christian one or the main Religion forum.

As far as I can tell, all if not most of the Atheists on this forum all agree on things. If we disagree about politics it is not because of our Atheistic stance but a matter of personal philosophy and is hashed out on the political forum. If we disagree about a scientific or technological venture we discuss it on that particular forum.

So, is having an Atheist board particularly necessary? I'm sure we'll have threads about why we became atheists and things of that nature but part of what makes this forum great is the debate in all of it. I just don't see us Atheists debating amongst ourselves that much... Take a look around. We all pretty much get along.

That being said, perhaps opening an Atheist forum will be a good thing. Maybe it'll show that all of the debate, all of the bickering, all of the fighting, and all of the animosity is a result of religion...

I'm not yet convinced that we need an Atheist forum/sub-forum so I am not yet going to vote. I am open to listening as to why we should get one but I am not yet convinced. That being said, if one does open up than I will most certainly post on there if the topics are of interest. I hope I'm wrong, in a way. Hopefully we'll have some wonderful topics. But, as we all know:

Atheism is as much a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby. - Richard Dawkins

Anyway, one way or the other, I continue looking forward to posting alongside all of you and I rest assured knowing that you won't look at me one way or the other simply because I am not yet voting. I'm anticipating the results of this. It's going to be interesting to say the least.

We are disscussing topics like the Stone Maison did a long time ago or "Free masion"

[.....think]

Lets get some Sub Forums. It would be nice to have philosophical debates with no blind reasoning at all.

We can have an admin just monitor the debates and if any religious fanatic comes in we can kick him out.

[Lucidus]

I read all the comments in this thread, and here is my input:

1. I like the idea of atheist/agnostic and world religion sub forums. Atheism is not a religion and grouping this way makes that clear. Having atheist/agnostic and Christianity subforums would tend to create the impression that atheism is some kind of rival religion to Christianity.

2. I am a moderator on another forum and we added an atheist/agnostic sub-forum about a year ago. That sub-forum gets very little traffic, but there are not as many atheists there as there are here.

3. There is one thread that I would like to start in an atheist sub-forum but that I will not start in the R&P forum because I know it would be offensive to theists.

[.....think]

What is it?

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by Tesaje

Such boundaries are not respected by the forum proselytizers now. I just see every topic going the same way - the proselytizers jump in with their bible verses and claim atheism is too a religion. Atheists rebut with all the flaws in their argument. Proselytizers ignore or deny facts and around and around it goes. I have seen some of them admit that proselytizing is the reason they joined CD.

There is so much more to talk about but when falsehoods are enjoined, it is too hard to resist correcting them. I've enjoyed debating too, but it gets old when the same old crap is thrown out.

On the other hand, there are non-proselytizing Christians who are interesting to talk with along with other religious views. Altho I do not believe in any sort of god, there are some who have expressed a view of their god and how it forms their life that makes sense. I would not want to exclude them or have them not welcome in debates. It just gets old when the only conversation is bible thumpers and opposing non-bible thumping.

I was hoping a non-religious subforum would encourage more philosophical discussions and discussions of other religion/life issues that could go somewhere besides the usual stuff of - all you need is the bible - no it isn't that proselytizers always bring the conversation down. Maybe you're right that the only traffic is the fight between non-believers and proselytizers. I would hope not.

I wasn't referring as much about the proselytizer's as much as I was threads that start out as "bait" for people of different faiths.

What I mean is, I'm hoping that I don't see threads with titles like:

"Don't You Find Christianity to be Absurd?"

As all of us make our sarcastic and witty comments it would be hard for someone of the Christian faith to NOT say something in rebuttal. Just as well, if we were to see a post on the Christianity forum titled "Don't you find Atheism to be Absurd?" I guarantee there'd be a whole army of Atheists over there banging on the door.

What I'm afraid of happening is having a thread titled something like "Don't You Find Christianity to be Absurd?" and when someone comes to defend it they are blasted into the upper atmosphere for trying to proselytize.

I'm all for discussing things amongst ourselves if there is indeed enough we can talk about. But, if it's going to turn into a segregated Jim Crow forum than I'm not in on it. As the poll states, and I'm paraphrasing, one of the options is:

"Not an atheist/agnostic but interested in non-confrontational discussion about it."

That's what it should be. While I do realize that people are going to come on there and proselytize regardless of how segregated we make it, it's just a fact of life and it'll be dealt with almost surely. However, there is a difference between someone who specifically comes on there to do nothing but proselytize and someone who is "lured" in only to be thwacked on the head for being a Christian on the Atheist forum.

I just wanted to point that out, because I think we DO KNOW the difference between the two and I think we are capable of respecting that boundary, but it is also a concern of mine.

[Blueberry]

As I understand it, the Christianity sub-forum was created for two purposes. The first was that just about every thread Christians created for discussion amongst themselves was infiltrated by a non-Christian who wanted to either ridicule or debate (sound familiar? ). Christians wanted a "nice" corner where they could discuss with like-minded individuals without always being on the defensive. The second reason for the sub-forum was that there were many threads that were of interest only to Christians. The non-Christians were rightly frustrated that it was difficult to find the non-Christian threads. The sub-forum was intended to weed out those threads so more people would be attracted to the main forum. (That seems to have worked.) The main forum was never intended to be a no-Christian zone. Christians who wanted their discussions open to a wider opinion were allowed to open threads on the main forum. They were also, to the dismay of most, allowed to represent their Christian perspective in other threads.

I'm with June, Montana, and Troop (who were all around to see the creation of the Christianity sub-forum). The Christianity sub-forum has not lived up to it's expectations, but it does at least free space on the main forum for threads of wider interest. I sincerely doubt that an atheist/agnostic sub-forum would live up to it's expectations, either. Would such a sub-forum free up space on the main forum to such an extent that there would be few new threads created on the main forum? If the non-religious are going to take all their threads over there in order to avoid Christian input, I fear the main forum would--in practicality--cease to exist.

Isn't the goal behind discussion of philosophy to have an open exchange of ideas and debate to determine the validity and practicality of an idea? Can there be an honest discussion if certain voices (e.g., Christian) are shut out? Do you realize it's just as impossible for a Christian to approach a discussion and leave his Christianity at the door as it is for an atheist to keep his worldview hidden?

I'm saddened that there is at least one person who wants to open a thread in the proposed sub-forum that he knows will be offensive to theists. What's the point in purposely offending others? This pertains to Troop's concern about Christian baiting. I don't buy the concept that the theists "get what they deserve" if they venture into an atheist/agnostic sub-forum. Lot's of threads in the Religion and Philosophy forum are offensive to others. If a subject can be approached civilly, there's usually not a problem. A sub-forum, IMO, isn't a place where one should feel free to offend, especially if rebuttal is avoided because it is a "safe" zone.

A question came up in the Administration section of City-Data the other day about a "no holds barred" forum, the idea being that anything could be said in such a forum without restraint or reprisal from moderators. The idea of such a forum was overwhelmingly rejected for the simple reason that most people come here to relax, enjoy their on-line friends, and maybe enter into a friendly debate. They didn't like the idea of a section that would encourage rudeness and offense. I share Troop's concern about Christian/theist baiting. I know of quite a few people who won't even enter the main Religion and Philosophy forum because of the open hostility against people of faith. I can only imagine what will happen when people of faith aren't allowed into the discussion.

[Visvaldis]

One of the main problems is that Religion and Philosophy is one forum. It's almost as if Philosophy is subordinate to Religion.
I think it would be best if both were separate forums. Christianity (and other religions) could be sub-forums in the Religion forum.
Having an atheist only forum doesn't seem like a place to discuss more than, I'm an atheist, you're an atheist...now what?
Philosophy, as a stand alone forum, could be open to everything in the universe. If christians want to participate it's fine. Philosophy should be open to everyone who is interested in ideas not dogmas.
Like a previous poster stated I don't think atheists (or atheism) should isolate themselves.

[Haaziq]

I'm all for it honestly.

[MontanaGuy]

To be honest I don't like the underlying feeling of hostility towards people who are religious that I'm picking up on some of these comments. I don't post in the Christianity forum because I'm not a Christian and I don't feel like I belong there but I don't want to put a "Stay Out" sign to religious people if they want to ask a question in an atheist subforum. I do agree that it wouldn't be an appropriate place to tell all of us atheists that we're going to hell but as I recall when the Christianity forum was created there wasn't a statement made to atheists to steer clear of that forum. I don't want to create an even greater division between atheists and believers and I'm concerned that creating an atheist subforum will do exactly that. There are religious people on this forum who I really respect like Alpha, Blue and ILNC who have been around a long time and I feel like I have an understanding of their viewpoint. Is it really necessary to form into groups with similar opinions or would it be more beneficial to try to understand what people are thinking who have a completely different perception of the world that we live in?

[KrisKr]

A good question to ask is: is the atheist is more or less at the solution of the problem for knowing than the agnostic? Another good one is the attitude of history for the agnostic tendency to understand how people measure up to ANXIETY for the passed proven changes.