Battling against ignorance (hell, Muslims, bible, quote)
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Thats a pretty tall task. Hmm...There are some basic fundamental things that can't be reconciled. As an example, in Islam homosexuality is a sin. I know there will be the usual debates about human rights etc etc but 1 of the fundamental rule of Islam is the sin of homosexuality. This is stated in the Quran thus muslims take it as God's command. Now, in Christianity, for example, this rule has been been bent to accomodate this group ie gay churches, priests etc. Fine. That is christianity's take on this, though im not sure if all of the different branches of christianity agrees on this.
But in Islam, there is no compromise on this. No bending of God's rules. In the stricter Islamic countries its punishable whereas in the less strict ones, its very much frowned upon and the sin of such an act is still emphasied. You will scream Islam as being intolerant and harsh but try to look at it from the muslim's point of view. This is a command from the Creator. None can change it on a whim or based on a poll etc except the Rule Giver. Islam is not just about religion. It incoporates the social, the political, the judical, everything.
Not entirely true. You're speaking about Fundamentalist Muslims. The fundamentalists of any religion tend to be unyielding because they are usually the most disenfranchised, which leaves them swathed in ignorance and its counterpart, fear. If you talk to "Westernized" Muslims, you'll see that the college-educated that have been raised in American culture do not hold steadfastly to the Quran, nor take it as literally. Change is possible, even among the Muslims.
You also have to understand that Islam is the youngest religion among Christianity and Judaism, so perhaps more Muslims need more time to "evolve" to a place where they become more flexible with their creeds. Rome wasn't built in a day, so to speak, and how many holy wars were fought in the name of Christianity until a relatively more peaceful agreement was reached among the Christians? You know, the United States was formed partially of Christians fleeing Britain in order to have greater religious freedom. That was only 400 years ago, which really isn't that long ago, relatively speaking.
So I haven't given up hope that Muslims can learn to live peacefully among other religions. What is ironic is that the U.S. is seeking to destroy the Middle East because the Middle East refuses to be more tolerant to Western beliefs. The United States has to stand-up for itself for sure, but when you think about it, its the pinnacle of hypocrisy, being intolerant of those who are intolerant.
Yah....cuz 2 mutually exclusive religions can both be right!!!!!!!!
Political correctness post-modernism run amok. It's sad, really.
I am really not politically correct at all honestly. I think political correctness has run amok too in some ways in the US.
But i'm also just not ignorant, bigoted and closed-minded. There is a difference you know. You CAN be open-minded and tolerant, yet not be politically correct.
kdbrich, i've seen you post many times. I know your personality. And let me tell you, you are one of the closed-minded people I speak of. You twist your reality around your religion, you are very, very intolerant and biggoted in your religious beliefs. You show contempt and hatred for other religions. And you are incredibly stubborn that your own specific views are correct, and apply to everyone else.
No insult there, just brutal honestly, with no politcal correctness And you don't have to change yourself. Keep on doing what you're doing if you think it's proper.
Christianity can be a beautiful religion. If you all would just be more tolerant and open-minded. The way it is right now, it's just breeding fundamentalism and hate. Bring Christianity back to the love that Jesus tried to teach.
Not entirely true. You're speaking about Fundamentalist Muslims. The fundamentalists of any religion tend to be unyielding because they are usually the most disenfranchised, which leaves them swathed in ignorance and its counterpart, fear. If you talk to "Westernized" Muslims, you'll see that the college-educated that have been raised in American culture do not hold steadfastly to the Quran, nor take it as literally. Change is possible, even among the Muslims.
You also have to understand that Islam is the youngest religion among Christianity and Judaism, so perhaps more Muslims need more time to "evolve" to a place where they become more flexible with their creeds. Rome wasn't built in a day, so to speak, and how many holy wars were fought in the name of Christianity until a relatively more peaceful agreement was reached among the Christians? You know, the United States was formed partially of Christians fleeing Britain in order to have greater religious freedom. That was only 400 years ago, which really isn't that long ago, relatively speaking.
So I haven't given up hope that Muslims can learn to live peacefully among other religions. What is ironic is that the U.S. is seeking to destroy the Middle East because the Middle East refuses to be more tolerant to Western beliefs. The United States has to stand-up for itself for sure, but when you think about it, its the pinnacle of hypocrisy, being intolerant of those who are intolerant.
Well said Violett - I read your post here carefully and though there are some points I don't agree with, your intentions I must give praise.
You must understand that fundamentalism in Islam is a little bit different from that of Christianity. I am, I hope, a fundamentalist. Not one who dresses like you see in the media, with the beard etc etc and demonstrating against the US or what have you. That is not fundamentalism - that is extremism (the actions that is not the dressing). The Prophet does not teach that. I'm secular educated, work for an american firm, don't keep a beard and dressed in 'western' fashion but my views are that of one you would label fundamental. I live in an environment where the women are free to work. But ask almost every muslim in my country and you will invariably get the same reply regarding lets say homosexuality.
Regarding those westernised muslims that do not hold fast to the Quran and the sunnah. That is their view but dig a little deeper and you will find these guys do not have much of a background in their religious studies to anchor them. Do a little more research into those fellows, separate the ones who have perhaps started to take their religion a little more seriously and you will find that their views differ from their earliers ones.
I am for change - maybe in regards to women's rights, political etc but not for watering down Islam's basic fundamental beliefs because that is not Men's beliefs but rather God's.
But believe me, its not all doom and gloom. You look at Islam through a non-muslim's perspective so of course it looks a little different then when viewed from a muslim. Thats normal. What is most important is that you must understand that Islam is not just about praying to God. Its a way of life. There are guides to everything from one's home, one's prayer house, one's social life, justice etc etc
In the 1800's, the fight for abolishment of slavery was probably the major battle against ignorance in the US.
In the 1900's, the fight for racial equality and women's rights were probably the two biggest battles agianst ignorance in the US.
In this century, I would say that religious bigotry is the force of ignorance we must battle.
This century began with the 9/11 attack. Which spotlighted what Muselm fundamentalism is all about. And in response, American Christian fundamentalists came out of the woodwork. And many of use who do not belong to either of these religions feel as though we are watching two institutions of equal ignorance, self-rightousness and bigotry battle it out.
In this century. We shall overcome religious bigotry. No more claims that one religion is correct and others are heathens. No more religious seperatism and superiority complexes. No more religious hatred and intolerance.
This, I hope will come true.
Funky, i have been on here a short time battling ignorance in religion and in politics, and you know what? i gave up. there is a reason why you can't change people and the book, born to believe, helped me see that it is impossible to change people's minds. if you find anyone on here that changes their minds and went over to your own viewpoints, let me know in a dm because i am not posting as much here. i bet i can't even change your own mind with what i am writing here. lol. it is even hard to change a skeptics mind, much less a man of god. it would be nice if that were true that there would be no more bigotry, but it is only a dream.
In the 1800's, the fight for abolishment of slavery was probably the major battle against ignorance in the US.
In the 1900's, the fight for racial equality and women's rights were probably the two biggest battles agianst ignorance in the US.
In this century, I would say that religious bigotry is the force of ignorance we must battle.
This century began with the 9/11 attack. Which spotlighted what Muselm fundamentalism is all about. And in response, American Christian fundamentalists came out of the woodwork. And many of use who do not belong to either of these religions feel as though we are watching two institutions of equal ignorance, self-rightousness and bigotry battle it out.
In this century. We shall overcome religious bigotry. No more claims that one religion is correct and others are heathens. No more religious seperatism and superiority complexes. No more religious hatred and intolerance.
This, I hope will come true.
So, you are intollerant of religions that are intollerant.
You want us Christians, Jews and Muslims to tollerate you as you are but you cannot tollerate us as we are.
What makes your belief system of total tollerance superior to our beliefs?
So, you are intollerant of religions that are intollerant.
You want us Christians, Jews and Muslims to tollerate you as you are but you cannot tollerate us as we are.
What makes your belief system of total tollerance superior to our beliefs?
I know you weren't asking me the question but I have a few thoughts on the subject. The basic problem with all of the various religions around the world is that they are often quite hostile to one another and in fact they're killing each other by the thousands in the name of their religion. Muslims are by far the worst offenders today but the other religions are guilty as well.
I understand kdbrich's statement that all of these religions can't all be true because they obviously contradict each other. Personally I don't think any of them are true but of course I'm not a believer. I do believe in the freedom of religion though and that would include your right to follow your Christian beliefs as you see fit. The point when religious belief becomes unacceptable in society in when it leads to violence and persecution and unfortunately we're seeing that in many parts of the world. I don't expect people of any faith to abandon their beliefs but I am hopeful that more religious individuals will adopt a live and let live approach towards those who have different faiths.
In the 1800's, the fight for abolishment of slavery was probably the major battle against ignorance in the US.
In the 1900's, the fight for racial equality and women's rights were probably the two biggest battles agianst ignorance in the US.
In this century, I would say that religious bigotry is the force of ignorance we must battle.
This century began with the 9/11 attack. Which spotlighted what Muselm fundamentalism is all about. And in response, American Christian fundamentalists came out of the woodwork. And many of use who do not belong to either of these religions feel as though we are watching two institutions of equal ignorance, self-rightousness and bigotry battle it out.
In this century. We shall overcome religious bigotry. No more claims that one religion is correct and others are heathens. No more religious seperatism and superiority complexes. No more religious hatred and intolerance.
This, I hope will come true.
I agree.
We are in the Correcting Times since the mid 80's. It's gonna take some time but our past will be corrected to make way for the future of Light and Life (Heaven on Earth). The way I'm understanding it is that it will take another thousand years. Give or take a few years.
It has already started and what we are seeing now, the wars and the violence and the economics, are just trying to make everything correct from the past. Don't let the fear of what's next lead you. Live only for today.
If we want to see peace and heaven on earth, we must all start with ourselves instead of relying on others to do it for us. Live in Love and the rest will fall in place.
I know you weren't asking me the question but I have a few thoughts on the subject. The basic problem with all of the various religions around the world is that they are often quite hostile to one another and in fact they're killing each other by the thousands in the name of their religion. Muslims are by far the worst offenders today but the other religions are guilty as well.
I understand kdbrich's statement that all of these religions can't all be true because they obviously contradict each other. Personally I don't think any of them are true but of course I'm not a believer. I do believe in the freedom of religion though and that would include your right to follow your Christian beliefs as you see fit. The point when religious belief becomes unacceptable in society in when it leads to violence and persecution and unfortunately we're seeing that in many parts of the world. I don't expect people of any faith to abandon their beliefs but I am hopeful that more religious individuals will adopt a live and let live approach towards those who have different faiths.
Why? What makes you belief system of live and let live better than anyone elses belief?
So, you are intollerant of religions that are intollerant.
You want us Christians, Jews and Muslims to tollerate you as you are but you cannot tollerate us as we are.
What makes your belief system of total tollerance superior to our beliefs?
Ah, the old cry for everyone to "tolerate your intolerance".
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And you don't have to change yourself. Keep on doing what you're doing if you think it's proper.
That is not fundamentalism - that is extremism (the actions that is not the dressing). The Prophet does not teach that. I'm secular educated, work for an american firm, don't keep a beard and dressed in 'western' fashion but my views are that of one you would label fundamental. I live in an environment where the women are free to work. But ask almost every muslim in my country and you will invariably get the same reply regarding lets say homosexuality. 
