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It is the other way around. The subconscious is more aware than the surface conscious as to the alternate realities and it is the surface consciousness (which is primarily how the individual self identifies) which is responsible for the fear and lack of control etc when confronted with the unusual.
The subconscious aspect of the individual is often misunderstood and/or misrepresented by the surface aspect (dominant self identity).
The 'nightmares' etc are ways in which the subconscious self gives opportunity to the conscious self to face the fears and move through them and learn from them, and generally heal.
this is not sound or healthy medical advice
while it is interesting to talk about and compare these experiences, it is harmful and against all sound medical and mental health practices and standards to use them as a substitute for counseling, therapy, or healing of a trauma.
for anyone giving medical advice please share if you have credentials; this is not an attack on any person or individual posting, but when things are posted that are dangerous or harmful, it bears pointing out. For someone to say let's have out of body experiences so we don't have to go get therapy or see a psychiatrist, is as ludicrous as saying if your side hurts, give yourself an appendenctomy
You have had a glimpse into another aspect of our reality, Pleroo. You are not alone in being "mentally blind" (unable to visualize). But in altered states (such as dreams) we are afforded glimpses into our true reality. Unfortunately, our subconscious mind is usually in control and it can harbor many fears and negative content which we experience as nightmares. Learning to acquire control over your dreams is a first step into another realm. When you do achieve control, you will encounter aspects that you cannot alter no matter how much you try. They are what I consider aspects of our true reality. Control is the key.
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Originally Posted by Rotagivan
It is the other way around. The subconscious is more aware than the surface conscious as to the alternate realities and it is the surface consciousness (which is primarily how the individual self identifies) which is responsible for the fear and lack of control etc when confronted with the unusual.
The subconscious aspect of the individual is often misunderstood and/or misrepresented by the surface aspect (dominant self identity).
The 'nightmares' etc are ways in which the subconscious self gives opportunity to the conscious self to face the fears and move through them and learn from them, and generally heal.
We do not disagree, but the nuances of understanding needed to fully comprehend what you are saying tend to defeat the main point I was striving to communicate. Complexity and detail usually defeat comprehension of the main point. Your proclivity for such detail without providing the appropriate grounding fails to communicate. I have enough difficulty communicating without adding the layer of complexity you seem to be striving for.
I gotcha. I don't think "bad" mental illness per say, I say this because all people have a glitch somewhere. As the number of glitches increases the likeliness of a mental illness increases. For example, addiction. Some people addicted to work are looked up to.
I will say that all of the people I have met believing in this type of thing always have been a bit off.
i am going to revisit this post by Arach here because the more i sit with it, the more sense it makes. first off I agree that the people i have met believing in this type of thing have been a bit off. One conclusion that can be made is there is a mental disturbance or mental illness. My observation is that the people in many ways are not grounded and functioning in basic common sense ways.
a related element is that for the most part these people feel they are "special" or "different" in some way with some "enhanced" skill. Many I have talked to share that along with their out of body experiences they have access to other dimensions, and receive information from beings in other dimensions. They consider this information superior and more advanced and from higher planes of wisdom. Therefore they justify to themselves that there is no need for things like, say , anger management, or therapy, or counseling, or healthy relationship skills, etc. Different rules apply to them because they "know more" or "know better."
This is not addressed to any individual posting on this forum, but based on my own personal experience with people in this area. Exploring these areas should never be an "instead of" common sense basic life skills and healthy interactions. Rather an "in addition to" and carried out in a framework of what is safe and sane and healthy. Otherwise people become more and more unbalanced, which is what we see often in this population.
So I appreciate Arach making this post as it brings illumination to something that I could never quite articulate or put my finger on.
We do not disagree, but the nuances of understanding needed to fully comprehend what you are saying tend to defeat the main point I was striving to communicate. Complexity and detail usually defeat comprehension of the main point. Your proclivity for such detail without providing the appropriate grounding fails to communicate. I have enough difficulty communicating without adding the layer of complexity you seem to be striving for.
Fair enough. However, it should not be assumed that everyone hereabouts is unable to delve into the more complex stuff and you might do well to say more than 'we do not disagree' but explain why we do not, as simply as you can for the benefit of the reader..
Complexity is part of the process and why so often metaphor is also part of the process of attempting to explain the hard to explain.
We do not disagree, but the nuances of understanding needed to fully comprehend what you are saying tend to defeat the main point I was striving to communicate. Complexity and detail usually defeat comprehension of the main point. Your proclivity for such detail without providing the appropriate grounding fails to communicate. I have enough difficulty communicating without adding the layer of complexity you seem to be striving for.
Well I certainly understand, but when I see someone saying something which gives the opposite impression of what is actually the case, it seems best to say so...point it out.
Generally individuals will gravitate to the stuff they understand the best. What I have to say...if it is over certain heads, isn't going to affect them in any bad way. People just skip the hard stuff as they choose, or try and grok it and ask questions etc.
My correcting what you said shouldn't have given anyone cause for confusion.
When I was a teenager, my girlfriend had an out of body experience, I wouldn't usually believe people but I did believe her.
Can you say why you believed her Hannibal?
Later in life I met a bunch of scientologists and I have no doubt that they leave their bodies.
That is interesting too. do you know specifically why you do not doubt them? Did they give you some kind of evidence which convinced you?
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I wouldn't recommend it, but I am sure they do it, I am convinced of either or.
Do you mind saying why you wouldn't recommend it?
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Either there is some type of hallucinations happening to tens of thousands of people the same way, or they are really leaving their bodies. I know they are not lying about it, so maybe they are in some type of hallucination spell, but how could that happen the same way to so many?
I have no choice but to consider that they actually leave their bodies, I just wouldn't do it myself.
I did not think I would 'do it myself' either, but I had no choice in the matter and thus had to deal with it.
Then - years later I did have a choice and it happened but I got a bit scared about it and 'came back'.
I understand it is the fear of the unknown but that was years ago now too so I think I have worked through those issues and would not mind at all trying it again.
Why would it be off topic for me to say what I did about my experience in relation to what you shared about the arm experiment?
No idea. Maybe you should ask someone who said it is, instead of me. What _I_ said is off topic is me evaluating your experience in any way. This thread, as the mod above just reminded us, is about anyone who had such an experience. It is not about other people evaluating those experiences or explaining how they are not as magic as many people think they are.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
The arm experiment produces a physical sensation only.
My point exactly. Thank you for making it for me. What ARE OBEs if not physical sensations. It is the experience of being outside your own body. That is by definition a physical sensation. And what the arm experience shows is just how readily the brain fools itself and you. And when you DO that experiment, which as I said I recommend very very heavily, you realize just how convincing it is when your own brain tells you things that you patently know are not true.
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Originally Posted by Rotagivan
I suspect that the experiences done in labs as 'experiments' might be way different from the normal experiences had, let alone the extremely unusual ones. Has Anyone Here Ever Had An "artificially stimulated"Out Of Body Experience? World of difference by all accounts.
It might differ in that you are more emotionally invested in one over the other, but I am not seeing anything in your posts that actually differentiates them. An experience is an experience, which is what this thread is about, and I am seeing nothing from you suggesting there is any notable difference due to location. I suspect that the experiences are identical, but the context differs wildly.
Again this thread is about whether anyone has had an OBE and the answer is many of us have had. And many of us CAN have. Starting with the arm experiment and moving on up. OBE "leider" has been associated with death but the good news is that one does not have to die, or come close to dying, in order to have these experiences or share in them.
It might differ in that you are more emotionally invested in one over the other, but I am not seeing anything in your posts that actually differentiates them.
Well that is because you are not able to. It isn't about 'emotional investment'.
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An experience is an experience, which is what this thread is about, and I am seeing nothing from you suggesting there is any notable difference due to location. I suspect that the experiences are identical, but the context differs wildly.
I doubt that any experience is identical with any other, or that 'location' has anything to do with them but what you described and what I described are in no way identical, no matter which way you bend it.
Whatever you suspect, suspicion isn't the thing which decides. the consciousness which has the experience decides.
Saying it is not all about emotional investment does not make it so. As I said I have looked to see if there are any actual arguments differentiating the experiences based on location and there are none there. I am sure people get highly emotionally invested in the experience when the context is similarly emotional.... such as nearly dying or some such.... but that is exactly when one must be more skeptical. Not less. The experiences we have are highly interesting and worthy of discussion. But mere context should not elevate them. There is no reason on offer, much less from you or this thread, to differentiate them on. An OBE is an OBE regardless and it seems they are more common and more explainable that most people know.
I can not recommend the arm experiment enough. It is an OBE that anyone can have and quite easily. And the experience of knowing where your arm is, but having your own brain stridently inform you otherwise is one that is not only transformative, but informative. You can very quickly have an experience that tells you exactly why people who have full OBE are so moved by the experience.
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