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And respectfully...it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not. Truth is truth.
truth? how so? a bunch of men wanted to keep women and their male lovers in line so they created a bunch of great stories and ideas to do that. most of those stories lay the foundation for being a good and humble person (the purpose of life), but many do not. you can see that in the way man has adapted those stories as time goes on.
Well, I have no faith or belief in Christianity, I just don't believe in it and as far as the story about the Red Sea parting, it's just that a good story.
Go straight to hell, do not pass go, do not collect 100 dollars!!!! and if you think this is harsh, just wait until those who believe the jesus myth end up dead!!!!! what a bummer!!!!! Of course, they won't know it, they'll be just as dead as the rest of us.
So we have views that we will not go to hell if we're good, even if we never heard about Christianity, and that we will go to hell if we never heard about Christianity because we ought to know about Christianity without being told. Odd, then that people in ancient civilizations never knew about Christianity before the evangelists arrived.
No, no, no. This doesn't wash. This problem, like the problem of evil, is an old one that the theists are tired of hearing about, just as we are tired of hearing Pascal's wager and the watchmaker. But that is because they have not been satisfactorily answered (that is, POE and 'why did you tell me?' (1) not Pascal and watchmakewhich HAVE been answered, repeatedly) because it overlooks that God set the whole thing up. It appears to present the whole hell - thing as some natural law, but it isn't. If God did it, it is entirely down to Him and if it seems appallingly unjust to us, it must surely seem appallingly unjust to Him - if his morality is anything the one we are supposed to have got from him.
So there are those who will say that it doesn't matter how God behaves, He is the Great leader and they will reverence Him in spite of that. I despair.
There are those who say that belief doesn't matter and one will get to heaven on the basis of works rather than faith.
In which case I'll be there before a bundle of Churchmen I could name. And belief or lack of it is irrelevant. One might as well be atheist.
1) An eskimo asked a missionary, 'Will people go to hell if they hear about Jesus, but don't believe?'
missionary: "Yes, if they refuse to believe."
Eskimo: "Will they go to hell if they never heard of Jesus?'
Romans 1:19-20 "For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see His invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature. SO THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER FOR NOT KNOWING GOD".
Romans 1:19-20 "For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see His invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature. SO THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER FOR NOT KNOWING GOD".
I Love North Carolina, dear lady no disrespect intended, I never said I did not know the Creator, I just do not know, nor do I wish to know about your Jesus of Nazareth, nor do I believe in your Christianity or your concept of heaven and hell.
i have got another question based on the biblical doctrine.what happens to non-believers are they damned for hell? what compels me to this subject is is the fact that people in the past have died without ever knowing the christian doctrine?
Think about bush men in the heart of Africa, that are isolated from the urban life and activities and they know nothing about Christianity or heard of Jesus are they accounted for hell too?
God can't be that ignorant can he?
I have asked this question in the past. There is a common misconception that when you die you go to heaven or hell. Not according to the bible, from what I understand. When you die, you die and your soul is on hold. When Jesus returns, ALL of the souls at that time will ascend into heaven (or hell, as the case maybe) along with the other people who are involved in the rapture.
The general consensus is that all of the people who have not had the opportunity to know Jesus in their lifetime (including the hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of folks who lived an died before Jesus was even born), are given the opportunity AT THAT TIME to accept him as their savior and be saved. Ergo, everybody gets the same chance.
i have got another question based on the biblical doctrine.what happens to non-believers are they damned for hell? what compels me to this subject is is the fact that people in the past have died without ever knowing the christian doctrine?
Think about bush men in the heart of Africa, that are isolated from the urban life and activities and they know nothing about Christianity or heard of Jesus are they accounted for hell too?
God can't be that ignorant can he?
I am more apt to believe that those who have heard of Jesus, and follow "Christianity" in order to become more "Christ-like" (ha!), are the ones going straight to "Hell." Seems like that would encompass many on this thread.
Romans 1:19-20 "For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see His invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature. SO THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER FOR NOT KNOWING GOD".
I can't agree with your reading. Where you write "For the truth about God is known to them instinctively"
I have "what is know about God is plain to them,"
You post: "God has put this knowledge in their hearts"
My copy "because God has made it plain to them."
How?
"people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see His invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature
That is referring to Nature proves God and, by 'Eternal power and divine nature' is no more than taking all the Bible stories as true and proof of God. So, if we are asking why we should believe what the Bible says, we are in a circular argument here.
I can't buy you reading or your Bible version's reading as saying that Paul was saying that somehow knowledge of god has been implanted in us. That is no more than the divine instinct. People have worshipped gods for a long time and of all various kinds. Who can say which is the real one? Paul believed that His god (reinvented and re-packaged to suit the gentiles) was the real one, but that is because he was brought upto believe it. If Paul had been born a hindu, he'd probably have been denouncing the buddhists and claiming that nature and innate knowledge proved the Hindu gods.
Greek concordances given:
Because that which may be known of God is manifest (phaneros1) apparent, manifest, evident, known 2) manifest i.e to be plainly recognised or known)
in them; F6 for God hath shewed (phaneroō1) to make manifest or visible or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way a) make actual and visible, realised b) to make known by teaching
c) to become manifest, be made known d) of a person 1) expose to view, make manifest, to show one's self, appear e) to become known, to be plainly recognised, thoroughly understood 1) who and what one is)
it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly
seen, (kathoraō1) to look down, see from above, view from on high 2) to see thoroughly, perceive clearly, understand)
being understood (noeō1) to perceive with the mind, to understand, to have understanding2) to think upon, heed, ponder, consider)
by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-27-2009 at 11:41 AM..
Reason: to give the concordances.
I can't agree with your reading. Where you write "For the truth about God is known to them instinctively"
I have "what is know about God is plain to them,"
You post: "God has put this knowledge in their hearts"
My copy "because God has made it plain to them."
How?
"people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see His invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature
That is referring to Nature proves God and, by 'Eternal power and divine nature' is no more than taking all the Bible stories as true and proof of God. So, if we are asking why we should believe what the Bible says, we are in a circular argument here.
I can't buy you reading or your Bible version's reading as saying that Paul was saying that somehow knowledge of god has been implanted in us. That is no more than the divine instinct. People have worshipped gods for a long time and of all various kinds. Who can say which is the real one? Paul believed that His god (reinvented and re-packaged to suit the gentiles) was the real one, but that is because he was brought upto believe it. If Paul had been born a hindu, he'd probably have been denouncing the buddhists and claiming that nature and innate knowledge proved the Hindu gods.
Greek concordances given:
Because that which may be known of God is manifest (phaneros1) apparent, manifest, evident, known 2) manifest i.e to be plainly recognised or known)
in them; F6 for God hath shewed (phaneroō1) to make manifest or visible or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way a) make actual and visible, realised b) to make known by teaching
c) to become manifest, be made known d) of a person 1) expose to view, make manifest, to show one's self, appear e) to become known, to be plainly recognised, thoroughly understood 1) who and what one is)
it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly
seen, (kathoraō1) to look down, see from above, view from on high 2) to see thoroughly, perceive clearly, understand)
being understood (noeō1) to perceive with the mind, to understand, to have understanding2) to think upon, heed, ponder, consider)
by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
No matter what translation you read, no one can stand before God and say "I didn't know". He will make a way for everyone to know Him.
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