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Old 11-15-2011, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,916,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lailz View Post
But knowing the world was made by God gives you more meaning to your life. Like I get that you just want to live your life and enjoy yourself etc but how about when you are faced with challenging times and difficult situations eg death of a loved one, losing a job, failing exams etc doesn't believing in God and being able to turn to a supreme being for help and guidance give you some sort of comfort and stop people spiraling into depression and anger...because sometimes life seems so unfair but if you believe there's a greater purpose and a reason for why things happen i.e. It's all part of a bigger plan then you feel better about life.

If wev all just been created by accident that just seems so sad that we are all here for no good reason and there's no meaning to our lives at all....
Laizl, again you make your points very well. I can understand how a belief in a god can give your life more meaning and can comfort you and give you hope when you face difficulties. I can understand how a life without meaning and purpose must seem very sad to you.

We Atheists don't need meaning in our lives. We are simply happy to be alive in reasonably good health. We love being with our families, and we especially love seeing our grandchildren growing up to be nice people. We are very thankful for the many good things in our lives, even the small things.

We know this life will not go on forever, so we make the most of it while we can. There are 6 people alive in this world who carry my DNA and I seem to have quite a few people who enjoy associating with me, so I think I have had a positive impact on this world. Sure, a very small impact, but that's good enough for me.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,659 posts, read 11,093,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I am an agnostic, basically I just don't know either way. Convince me of God WITHOUT quoting anything from the Bible. I promise to listen ( or read!) with open mind.
I have recently started posting in other sections besides cd auto, and cd Los Angeles, and I am amazed at all the different subject matter open for discussion.
I turned to this section looking for a particular topic of discussion, and found not one that deals with the afterlife.
You asked in your original post, which I quoted here, to find something that would convince you of God.
Well my friend, I have something that not only proves the presence of God, but will also explain the reality of an after life.
Some believe in life after death, while others do not.
I can only speak from knowledge I have obtained over the past twenty years.
I feel this will be a long post, but you asked to be convinced, and after reading this, you may well be.
"Electronic Voice Phenomenon" ;I don't know if you are versed in that term, but a goggle search, along with the name Sarah Estep will enlighten you as to what I am posting here.
When My partner died just under twenty years ago, like all who have lost a loved one, I became distraught, and it wasn't until I had a discussion with some friends one evening, and the subject of the afterlife came up.
I had never given any thought to what happens once we die., and frankly the conversation made me feel uneasy.
During that conversation one of my friends suggested I read a book titled, "Life after Life" by an author named Raymond A. Moody jr.
I thought about our conversation for a few days after, and decided I would purchase this book.
To say I was intrigued would be a gross understatement.
Half way through the book, he told of a woman in Maryland who was experimenting with recording voices of people who had passed on.
Her name was Sarah Estep, and her findings are published, and also documented on broadcast television.
In the book it explained how, if the novice cared to try and experiment with voice recording, just how to get started, using simple equipment outlined by Ms Estep.
I purchased the equipment which consisted of an inexpensive cassette recorder, and microphone.
I would need an electronic device such as a radio,or tv, and I would be set to experiment.
You may think at this juncture,, what is the point in all this?
You asked to be convinced, and explaining this system is what will convince you.
Now to record, this is what I had to do.
First, turn on the radio, or tv, and tune it to a blank station that was not broadcasting.
In the case of the radio, all one would hear is a soft hissing sound, then with the volume placed at it's lowest point, nothing.
For my recording sessions, I chose the radio.
The radio is turned on, but NOT connected to the tape recorder in any way.
I learned that the radio was merely a conveyance method for the voice to travel, so it had to be in the same room as the tape recorder.
In essence, the radio was "picking" up the voice transmission.
The tape player is turned on, and that is when the questioning begins.
The first thing I learned from Ms Estep's experiments was patience.
One must be patient to gain results.
The objective was to ask a question while taping, wait ten seconds, then ask another question, wait another ten or so seconds, and ask again.
While taping, one does not hear an answer to these series of questions, the answer, if there is one, can only be heard once the tape is rewound, and played back.
The questions I asked are also heard on playback.
It took me nearly a week of recording before I had my first response., and as true as I am sitting here posting this, the voice from beyond the grave was now on my recorder.
When I first heard it, a cold chill came over me, and the hairs on my arms stood up.
I sat there is amazement, and a bit of freight.
I had done it, but how?
The voice on the tape was of a woman asking for help.
I later learned from talking with Ms.Estep on the phone, that what I had experienced was rather common.
I need not go into that, but the way this system works is what can be termed as nothing but divine intervention.
Bear in mind, the recorder, and radio were NOT connected in any way, but somehow, the voice was picked up by the radio, and transferred to the recorder, and placed on the tape.
I tried recording without the use of the radio, and it did not work.
If you have a logical explanation as to how this occurred, I would like to hear it.
When the day arrived that I did hear the voice of my partner that passed, he had been gone for three months.
There are no words to describe my feelings at hearing his voice,I was overcome with joy, and tears. but safe to say, from that point on, and for the next few years, I recorded his voice, and that of many others.
As I stated at the beginning, this would be a long post, and there was no way to shorten it, and show you what the power of God is all about.
How else do you explain the way this is done, especially when there are no direct electronic connections between components?
I have much to tell on this fantastic subject, but for now, my point was to do as you asked, and convince you that God is there, and he does work in mysterious ways.
Bob.
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Old 11-16-2011, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,916,146 times
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So Calguy, what exactly is the miracle you experienced?

A dead person spoke on a tape recorder? Is that it?
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,659 posts, read 11,093,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
So Calguy, what exactly is the miracle you experienced?

A dead person spoke on a tape recorder? Is that it?
The "miracle" as you call it is twofold.
First, the fact that we who are involved in these experiments can do it at all,and the way it takes place without any of the electrical components connected together in any way, though remaining dependent on each other for the recording to work.
If you can explain how these components are able to work in conjunction with one another, while not being connected to each other, I would like to hear an explanation other than divine intervention.
Bob.
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Old 11-16-2011, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,496 posts, read 12,957,712 times
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Default Oh My Lord! Save us all, nea1! Puh..Leeeez?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
if you trace your family tree you will end up with Adam and Adam was created by God
what unbridled clap-trap. (IMHO, of course... ).

If we do actually accurately "trace" our family-tree DNA backwards nowadays, guess where we actually end up?

Gorilla with Chest Deluxe Mens Costume*|*Meijer.com

(Oh and by the way, it's also impossible, from only two people, Adam and Eve, to have generated the world's current population complete with observable genetic diversity, especially if we throw in total global and population elimination of the Noah's Ark floods a mere 2500 yrs ago! Impossible, mathematically. Impossible. Got it?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteskye View Post
you say you're open but if you're limited to a left brain, rational, reasoning mind (which i suspect you are) you will not be "convinced".
intellectual does not = being open.
which is not to say that being intellectual excludes spirituality.
anyway, why do you need anybody to convince you of anything?
do your own work.
Really, huh? Intellectual means not being open-minded, huh? I Did Not Know That! But, uhhmmm... anyhow... nea1 asked a simple-enough question. Guess you're not the best dude to provide that rational answer, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
let me guess, from the Bible? That is a convenient thing for him to say. He just is. Ok I am Angelina Jolie, there, I am.
Oh goodie! So.... can I PLEEZE have a date, "Angelina"? I'll even pay for the first drink! Ok, first two! Tell you what; I'll give you the 3-letter code for our little local airport and you drop in with the Lear this next Friday night. Say about 8:00 pm? (I'm getting too old for really late dates.) But then... just leave the rest to me, n'Kay?

Together we can find something "godly", I'll just bet'cha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Why would you expect such a thing? The Bible is the best revelation that we have from God.

Having said that, creation itself testifies to the fact that there is a creator. The Cosmological argument states that for every effect there is a cause. Well.....the effect is the universe. Do you have an alternative cause?
Sorry; we know it's a fantasy book, full of metaphors and outdated ideas. Concepts that have since been overwhelmingly proven to have happened by other rational means.

It's simply your choice to assume that it's somehow inerrant, but from which the rest of us, esp. those with some critical thinking and educational skills, have been able to detach ourselves.

And as well, the OP quite clearly said "no bible stuff". Did you not read that? This is the challenge for you, apparently. Prove God without using biblical quotes. Quite the problem, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
read the Quran all of it more than 600 pages then after that you judge

but not before that

The Quran is a record of the exact words revealed by God through the Angel Gabriel to the Prophet Muhammad.
OK. Nice Cut & Paste diatribe, but it PROVES what again? That you can't have faith without your guidebook?

Thought so. Next.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Laizl, again you make your points very well. I can understand how a belief in a god can give your life more meaning and can comfort you and give you hope when you face difficulties. I can understand how a life without meaning and purpose must seem very sad to you.

We Atheists don't need meaning in our lives. We are simply happy to be alive in reasonably good health. We love being with our families, and we especially love seeing our grandchildren growing up to be nice people. We are very thankful for the many good things in our lives, even the small things.

We know this life will not go on forever, so we make the most of it while we can. There are 6 people alive in this world who carry my DNA and I seem to have quite a few people who enjoy associating with me, so I think I have had a positive impact on this world. Sure, a very small impact, but that's good enough for me.
hiker[/i], I think you are somewhat mistaken & slightly off-track here, though it is your opinion, I'll accept that. Perhaps I misunderstand you? But please... do try this alternate paradigm on for size....

Truth is, I have lots of "meaning and purpose" in my purely atheistic life. I just don't need to accept the outrageous and silly concepts and strict limits of religion to do so. In fact, I have found significantly more feelings, purpose and meaning to my life since I don't have to auto-reject a lot of observed facts simply because some biblical scholar or IDTr* tells me to.

[*Intransigent Dogmo-Theist]

A Christian's trembling fear of the truth is truly hobbling to their mindset and understanding, this being immediately obvious whenever you discuss anything spiritual or "of nature" with them. They have to stop in mid-thought because they are prohibited from going too far in their philosophical and intellectual investigations.

And now, for another thrilling installment of The Outer Limits.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
I have recently started posting in other sections besides cd auto, and cd Los Angeles, and I am amazed at all the different subject matter open for discussion.
I turned to this section looking for a particular topic of discussion, and found not one that deals with the afterlife.
You asked in your original post, which I quoted here, to find something that would convince you of God.
Well my friend, I have something that not only proves the presence of God, but will also explain the reality of an after life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rflmn
...and then he provides a rather lengthy diatribe which you can read above. Suffice to say, it proves, well... not much. It's unrelated to the OP's simple question and challenge, IMHO.
I have much to tell on this fantastic subject, but for now, my point was to do as you asked, and convince you that God is there, and he does work in mysterious ways.
Bob.
Uhmmm... sorry, laddie, but this does not prove God, just that you had an unusual experience with radio-frequency interference and your assumption of a hidden message. How do you know this was "of god" after all, and not some RF bleed-over from a nearby guy with a cheap CB radio and a sense of humor?

Proof of god? Hardly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
The "miracle" as you call it is twofold.
First, the fact that we who are involved in these experiments can do it at all, and the way it takes place without any of the electrical components connected together in any way, though remaining dependent on each other for the recording to work.
If you can explain how these components are able to work in conjunction with one another, while not being connected to each other, I would like to hear an explanation other than divine intervention.
Bob.
So... God has his HAM radio license, just like me? I've never heard his call-sign. What is it? K1-GOD?

This is right up there with those supposedly true-to-life drill-hole sounds from hell. You have heard that one, have you not? No?

Here:

(first one...)


Drilling into hell (ULTRA SOUND) - YouTube

(as one of the commenters notes, it sounds like she was in her kitchen and lost her sandwich....).

...or this version (they get more creative as we go along... as do so many biblical interpretations...)


Souls screams of millions of humans

(Sounds like a radical fundy motivational meeting to me...).

Well you get the idea. Some folks really WANT to believe this stuff, and it's all they need as PROOF. Others... uhmmm... not so much!

Last edited by rifleman; 11-16-2011 at 06:58 PM..
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,332 posts, read 2,848,695 times
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Gods gotta' exist because the symbols we communicate with are re-arrangeable for more or less communication, but why does the exchange of ideas have such a variable constitution of conscience realized. Somehow the morality of existence amongst us has got to be freely motivated into the self-determined after all decisions by each human. Nevertheless it is otherwise just arbitrary how the conscience is easier or more painful here or there for the exchange of experience.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,916,146 times
Reputation: 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
Gods gotta' exist because the symbols we communicate with are re-arrangeable for more or less communication, but why does the exchange of ideas have such a variable constitution of conscience realized. Somehow the morality of existence amongst us has got to be freely motivated into the self-determined after all decisions by each human. Nevertheless it is otherwise just arbitrary how the conscience is easier or more painful here or there for the exchange of experience.
Gotta think about that one, Tgnostic. I'll get back to you in a year or two - or maybe three. Don't wait up.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,916,146 times
Reputation: 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
The "miracle" as you call it is twofold.
First, the fact that we who are involved in these experiments can do it at all,and the way it takes place without any of the electrical components connected together in any way, though remaining dependent on each other for the recording to work.
If you can explain how these components are able to work in conjunction with one another, while not being connected to each other, I would like to hear an explanation other than divine intervention.
Bob.
Maybe you just cannot perceive how the two components were connected.

You and the Earth are connected by a gravitational force, but you can't see it. You can't see a magnetic field either. There are probably other forces in this Universe that we are also ignorant of.

Just because you can't understand something doesn't make it supernatural.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,659 posts, read 11,093,993 times
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For those of you who have doubts as to the validity of what I posted ion this thread, how bout you google the name Sarah Estep?
Read about her work, then google her appearance on the television shoe "sightings".
You might be surprised at what you find.
OH, and if there are forces in the universe that we are not yet to conceive, where do these forces come from?
What is their origin?
Bob.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,916,146 times
Reputation: 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
For those of you who have doubts as to the validity of what I posted ion this thread, how bout you google the name Sarah Estep?
Read about her work, then google her appearance on the television shoe "sightings".
You might be surprised at what you find.
If I wanted to read about some miracles that another person has observed, I would read the Book of Mormon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
OH, and if there are forces in the universe that we are not yet to conceive, where do these forces come from?
What is their origin?
Bob.
I plead ignorance and apathy. In other words, I don't know and I don't care.
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