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The Field Museum is incredible. That is most definitely a real museum. You were only there 7 hours. YOu could spend a few days in it just to go through everything. Did you make it over to the Museum of Science and Industry? That was my favorite when I lived outside of Chicago.
We only had 7 hours, closing time!! No we didn't get over there, we went to the aquarium and they were having a air and water show there as well. navy pier was PACKED!!!
Out Of Place Artifacts =OOPARTS. There are thousands of "Out of Place Artifacts" which do not fit the evolution fairy tale, which was invented by foolish ones for the willfully ignorant God haters to follow religiously.
Not meaning to question your profound sense of wisdom, but you're not saying anything about Ooparts that isn't already known. You should try to lighten up for a change instead of being so grumpy and ranting on in such a judgemental and self-centered manner. Are you really that depressed about your own life? Are you going to declare that the universe was created by you? I have no problem with acknowledging that I certainly don't know everything, but do you belong to some kind of religious group that looks at everything in the exact same way you do?
You keep repeating certain things as if you've run out of other descriptions, such as, "evolution fairy tale", "foolish ones", "ignorant God haters". That's mighty presumptuous. Frankly, it pretty well shows the hatred within yourself.
Regardless, try chewing on this. Yes, they're real, and no, they aren't mummified fetuses of humans or monkeys. They are the dried remains of actual living things found in Southeast Asia. To understand the scale, they're about the size of your hand. Maybe you don't know quite as much as you'd like people to think you do?
They had a great exhibit on actual pirates with real treasure, silver coins. it was fascinating!! I really loved the evolution of the planet and humans and the Dino exhibit.
Out Of Place Artifacts =OOPARTS. There are thousands of "Out of Place Artifacts" which do not fit the evolution fairy tale, which was invented by foolish ones for the willfully ignorant God haters to follow religiously.
"If the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch". Ooparts & Ancient High Technology--DNA, The Ultimate Oopart!
Thousands, huh? What, exactly, do you, YSM, then believe about the millions of IRPAs? The "In the Right Place Artifacts"? Those that absolutely DO support the truth?
Please... do answer the question, properly.
BTW, We see no need to convince you; the education system is happily teaching the truth to millions of high-school graduates; public schools, after all, are charged with teaching the truth to the young minds in our society.
Then, tens of millions of them pour out the doors of our schools every June, and a lot then go on to become scientists. A few muddle through, get it wrong, are asked to leave the University because of failing grades, and become "professionally failed scientists", "pseudo-scientists" who then desperately try to claim true credibility in hopes of making an income as acolytes for God. Courtesy of some faker Christian University. And because of Christians' happy donations.
How quaint! I see that you, at least, find that nonsense believable! After all, you quote it all the time!
You people love to gloat and parade out the insignificant, the claims by the various self-aggrandizing and self-accredited Creationist Institutes that...
1) have no credibility with anyone on the planet except the congregation, and
2) refuse to allow a second review and opinion of any of their artifacts.
(I, for instance, sent four e-mails to four city officials in the town of Acambara, requesting a few shards of these figurines. I promised to return them back untouched. They were directed to send them to the Catholic Church in Vancouver, Canada to make sure they were not tampered with by "Satanic scientists". We would have dated them with the latest X-Ray fluorescence dating and thermo-luminescence methods to provide a valid and irrefutible cross-check.)
They all, to a man, and one woman [the mayor] ignored me. They did not even respond with a kindly "No thanks".
They have no interest in having the truth of these profitable "Tourista-Trapista" items debunked for the fakes they obviously are. So, C34's relentless lies about science's lack of interest do not hold any water. Holy or otherwise! Frankly, I'm sure that C34 breathed a sigh of relief that they denied me the opportunity, because in the dark reaches of his heart and mind there has to be at least the suspicion that these are, of course, fakes.
Wonder what THAT all means. Any ideas, YSM? An absolutely frantic fear of being discovered as total, purposeful mis-representers? Nice.
You live in a democracy, where a majority vote clearly wins, but you happily state, categorically, that one or two, or even the oft-quoted 700, religious "scientists" [PS: there are professional failures in any profession... I'm just sayin'], offsets and dismisses the research results of literally tens of millions of actual, honest and credible researchers that study this stuff.
Next, you'll be telling us that literally EVERYTHING these bright young minds, un-indoctrinated by any particular theist beliefs, are ALL lies. Always. That everything they say and have published in credible scientific journals and publications is ALL pure tripe. That what you profess?
Again, it's amazing what some uneducated people will believe.
AEREQUIPA: just FYI: a careful review of the literature on the Acambara figurines reveals that the first two determinations of their age were done by Carbon14 dating. This only works on organic materials or fossils of once-living organisms, not clay figures.
The faux dates they got were of the smeared old carbon that the submitters placed there. Artifacts destined for C14 dating must be handled very carefully. These were obviously not; the results, aside from using the entirely wrong technique in the first place, were completely bogus and unacceptable for clearly technical reasons. This is all glossed over by the LFJ* types.
Also, note the huge variation in the stated ages of these items in C34's posts. They range over thousands of years. Quite convincing, huh? I mean, despite that they are all bogus dates anyways, but still.... accuracy, apparently, is of no concern to the dedicated fundy mindset. and yet, if scientists were to present such varitions, all h$ll would break loose about science's assumptions and errors. "Selective Acceptance" at work again.
Next: Yes, I also truly LOVED that bit of "proof" of the Acambara toys, claimed by C34, where a Japanese TV journalist opened a book, showed the camera a picture of a dinosaur, then picked up a fake figurine and smiled! Now THAT'S what I call credible proof, C34! You, and YSM, and no doubt kd, lap this stuff up like, well, like Kool-Aide.
Next, they had them dated by thermo-luminescence back when this technique was still in it's developmental infancy. Inconclusive results, as carefully stated by it's users. That disclaimer is, of course, never mentioned by C34.
Then, finally, they used X-ray fluorescence, but sadly they claimed they did it before that technique(of which I am more than a little familiar, having used it at my alma mater)was even invented. !!!! A time machine in the back of the lab perhaps?
In other words, they looked around when they wrote this up years later and hijacked a very high-tech-sounding name and attached it to their "discovery", their research, for credibility. Only amongst the scientifically illiterate, of which there are apparently quite a few!
When they do quote truely credible and actual living scientists and Universities in support of nonsense theories, when we check those out, and the quotes credited to them, they always deny they ever said it. In other words, the quotes are often made up.
All in all, we've now dubbed this apparently common practice as...
"*Lying for Jesus"
It adds a new option to answer the age-old question: WWJD? Lie?
Not meaning to question your profound sense of wisdom, but you're not saying anything about Ooparts that isn't already known. You should try to lighten up for a change instead of being so grumpy and ranting on in such a judgemental and self-centered manner. Are you really that depressed about your own life? Are you going to declare that the universe was created by you? I have no problem with acknowledging that I certainly don't know everything, but do you belong to some kind of religious group that looks at everything in the exact same way you do?
You keep repeating certain things as if you've run out of other descriptions, such as, "evolution fairy tale", "foolish ones", "ignorant God haters". That's mighty presumptuous. Frankly, it pretty well shows the hatred within yourself.
Regardless, try chewing on this. Yes, they're real, and no, they aren't mummified fetuses of humans or monkeys. They are the dried remains of actual living things found in Southeast Asia. To understand the scale, they're about the size of your hand. Maybe you don't know quite as much as you'd like people to think you do?
first-off: Kele, thank you for the brief summary of C14 dating. Let's see if good old reliable Tom (C34) tries to assert it again as "proof" of the age of his beloved fake figurines.
BTW, we utilized X-Ray fluorescence at Simon Fraser University back in the '80s to analyse geological samples from the varve analysis we conducted. Oddly, we were able to count down well past 12,000 years, and only because we ran out of drill pipe and funding. Else, we'd have no doubt "discovered" that the earth, by invariable seasonal sedimentary deposition counts, was waaaayyy faaarrr older than a mere 6035 (or I suppose, in 2009, 6036) "YEC YEARS".
One of the pioneers of optical dating, Dr Dave Huntley at SFU, did extensive work calibrating the method. I wrote of it in some detail, and it was, of course, completely ignored by C34 (perhaps he could not get through the technical jargon) here on C-D, back a few months ago:
This is, of course, part of YSM's "fairy-tale" support for the Geologic Column. YSM is adroitly working her oh-so-credible way through the entire list of proofs, disallowing each and every one of them with her astounding knowledge of science, her deep understanding of nuclear physics and her strong working knowledge of DNA (to a Christian fundy, DNA stands for Do Not Acknowledge!)
And yet, everything she presents shows her knowledge to be but donkey-dust in the scheme of things understood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme
How to remain ignorant of truth about earth science:
(Now edited for accuracy, and thus revised by rifleman, for Christian fundies: )
Make sure you never read anything by credible scientists.
Make sure you burn all copies of Scientific American.
Make sure you never hear anything by credible scientists.
Make sure you never look at anything even closely resembling factual accounts.
How to show you are a fool:
Make sure to scoff and make wide mouths at anyone who provides credible accounts, or who has actually been in the field doing the dirty work of painstaking scientific research.
Isa 57:4 Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, [and] draw out the tongue? [are] ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,
rifleman: 8-16-09:"Seek ye not the words of the acolytes, of the arrogant yet uneducated fools, for they shall diminish and become but the endless wisps of dung-dust of this earth, having nothing else to say and nowhere else to go ."
Wow! That was easy! Now I know how the ancient biblical scholars did it!
Thousands, huh? What, exactly, do you, YSM, then believe about the millions of IRPAs? The "In the Right Place Artifacts"? Those that absolutely DO support the truth?
Please... do answer the question, properly.
BTW, We see no need to convince you; the education system is happily teaching the truth to millions of high-school graduates; public schools, after all, are charged with teaching the truth to the young minds in our society.
Then, tens of millions of them pour out the doors of our schools every June, and a lot then go on to become scientists. A few muddle through, get it wrong, are asked to leave the University because of failing grades, and become "professionally failed scientists", "pseudo-scientists" who then desperately try to claim true credibility in hopes of making an income as acolytes for God. Courtesy of some faker Christian University. And because of Christians' happy donations.
How quaint! I see that you, at least, find that nonsense believable! After all, you quote it all the time!
You people love to gloat and parade out the insignificant, the claims by the various self-aggrandizing and self-accredited Creationist Institutes that...
1) have no credibility with anyone on the planet except the congregation, and
2) refuse to allow a second review and opinion of any of their artifacts.
(I, for instance, sent four e-mails to four city officials in the town of Acambara, requesting a few shards of these figurines. I promised to return them back untouched. They were directed to send them to the Catholic Church in Vancouver, Canada to make sure they were not tampered with by "Satanic scientists". We would have dated them with the latest X-Ray fluorescence dating and thermo-luminescence methods to provide a valid and irrefutible cross-check.)
They all, to a man, and one woman [the mayor] ignored me. They did not even respond with a kindly "No thanks".
They have no interest in having the truth of these profitable "Tourista-Trapista" items debunked for the fakes they obviously are. So, C34's relentless lies about science's lack of interest do not hold any water. Holy or otherwise! Frankly, I'm sure that C34 breathed a sigh of relief that they denied me the opportunity, because in the dark reaches of his heart and mind there has to be at least the suspicion that these are, of course, fakes.
Wonder what THAT all means. Any ideas, YSM? An absolutely frantic fear of being discovered as total, purposeful mis-representers? Nice.
You live in a democracy, where a majority vote clearly wins, but you happily state, categorically, that one or two, or even the oft-quoted 700, religious "scientists" [PS: there are professional failures in any profession... I'm just sayin'], offsets and dismisses the research results of literally tens of millions of actual, honest and credible researchers that study this stuff.
Next, you'll be telling us that literally EVERYTHING these bright young minds, un-indoctrinated by any particular theist beliefs, are ALL lies. Always. That everything they say and have published in credible scientific journals and publications is ALL pure tripe. That what you profess?
Again, it's amazing what some uneducated people will believe.
AEREQUIPA: just FYI: a careful review of the literature on the Acambara figurines reveals that the first two determinations of their age were done by Carbon14 dating. This only works on organic materials or fossils of once-living organisms, not clay figures.
The faux dates they got were of the smeared old carbon that the submitters placed there. Artifacts destined for C14 dating must be handled very carefully. These were obviously not; the results, aside from using the entirely wrong technique in the first place, were completely bogus and unacceptable for clearly technical reasons. This is all glossed over by the LFJ* types.
Also, note the huge variation in the stated ages of these items in C34's posts. They range over thousands of years. Quite convincing, huh? I mean, despite that they are all bogus dates anyways, but still.... accuracy, apparently, is of no concern to the dedicated fundy mindset. and yet, if scientists were to present such varitions, all h$ll would break loose about science's assumptions and errors. "Selective Acceptance" at work again.
Next: Yes, I also truly LOVED that bit of "proof" of the Acambara toys, claimed by C34, where a Japanese TV journalist opened a book, showed the camera a picture of a dinosaur, then picked up a fake figurine and smiled! Now THAT'S what I call credible proof, C34! You, and YSM, and no doubt kd, lap this stuff up like, well, like Kool-Aide.
Next, they had them dated by thermo-luminescence back when this technique was still in it's developmental infancy. Inconclusive results, as carefully stated by it's users. That disclaimer is, of course, never mentioned by C34.
Then, finally, they used X-ray fluorescence, but sadly they claimed they did it before that technique(of which I am more than a little familiar, having used it at my alma mater)was even invented. !!!! A time machine in the back of the lab perhaps?
In other words, they looked around when they wrote this up years later and hijacked a very high-tech-sounding name and attached it to their "discovery", their research, for credibility. Only amongst the scientifically illiterate, of which there are apparently quite a few!
When they do quote truely credible and actual living scientists and Universities in support of nonsense theories, when we check those out, and the quotes credited to them, they always deny they ever said it. In other words, the quotes are often made up.
All in all, we've now dubbed this apparently common practice as...
"*Lying for Jesus"
It adds a new option to answer the age-old question: WWJD? Lie?
I would rep ya, but got to spread it around. Again an excellent post, although you wont get through to them!! Common sense does not live there!!
Wow rifleman--I have to say, your posts, well they leave this little ol' college girl breathless. I do so love a man of intelligence. Plus all this talk about dating methods gets my motor running....
Can we discuss Potassium-Argon, Argon-Argon, and Obsidian Hydration next?
Wow rifleman--I have to say, your posts, well they leave this little ol' college girl breathless. I do so love a man of intelligence. Plus all this talk about dating methods gets my motor running....
Can we discuss Potassium-Argon, Argon-Argon, and Obsidian Hydration next?
What thank you! I wish I could compress them down to one or two pithy lines, but there's a lot to say, and someone's gotta say it, right? And the fundies offer what our military refer to as :
A Target-Rich Environment. So many purposefully mis-stated and errant statements to be so easily corrected..
Nonetheless, there's always fission tracking, or my favorite; laser thermo-luminescence optical dating! BTW, you may be well aware that if an artifact has been exposed to sunlight, it's value for later thermo-luminescence optical dating is, essentially, voided. Ditto with exposure to high heat, as in a kiln, as in: when the thousands of fake figurines were being "toasted up" in downtown Acambara, or when they were unearthed from their previous recent burial, and tossed out in the sun in the desert heat.
And yet, thermo-luminescence date they did!
And they expect us to then place our trust in those fouled results? I'd say the lab who claimed to do these should refund their fee to The Creationist Institute!
Well, drln; I do so love to chat with a science girl! Let's plan on an archeological dating experiment! Yeah! Some Obsidian Hydration Fringe work? Wanna come up to my condo and see some of my (nuclear fission) "etchings"?
BTW #2; at a site near us, a personal friend of mine from Central WA University is unearthing some 14-18k old mammoth bones:
He actually dated my very own mammoth molar, from a juvenile animal who probably got stuck in the Alaskan mud 15 - 18k years ago. You know, before God created him? (Yes, they can even state his gender from the shape of the molar!)
More fakery I'm sure. The workers down on their "prayer bones" in the Wenas (prn: Wee-Nass) picture are actually planting fake bones. They learned it from the Acambara Project!
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The uneducated may be so by personal choice!
