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Sort of like when as a parent we send our child to "time out" and we get to think about what we did or didn't do, right? What, if any, punishment is there to face before being reconciled with God?
Well, I certainly don't want to go to hell and personally find out. I would assume it's no fun.
Let's just cut to the chase here, for all the posters, not just you: do you really think than an ETERNAL, torturous seperation from God is actually JUST?
The definition of just is: The due reward or punishment for an act. Justice is getting what is deserved.
So someone in Iraq is raised with next to no knowledge of Jesus. They are taught from birth that Islam is the ONLY way to God. They live a good life, are not a jihadist, love their fellow man and family. One day this person steps on a roadside bomb and dies. Their act (or non-act) of not accepting Christ earns them ETERNAL, torturous seperation from God? This is due reward? This is getting what's deserved?
Blessedly, God makes more sense than His followers do.
I was wondering if Christian Universalists claim Hosea Ballou as thier own or not. I am Unitarian Universalist, and we claim him, but I was wondering if you do too.
I never could accept the concept of the traditional burning ,torturing hell. It remindes me of Dante's inferno, which we all know was fiction. Family has argued to me that the bible is dualism, that is heaven-hell,good-evil, angels-demons, and so on. When I say eternal life-eternal death, it starts another debate that I don't understand the bible. All this happened long ago in the past, so I am not asking for advice. I am finally at the point in my life where I am satisfied with the fact that if I am a good, kind loving person and follow Christs very simple, easily understood instructions that I will probably be able to spend eternity praising him. The bible tells me that the devil and his angels, sin and death will be thrown into the lake of fire. I don't think that is literal either. I think it just means that those things will be no more. I hope I don;t lose any friends now that I have said that
Well, I certainly don't want to go to hell and personally find out. I would assume it's no fun.
Let's just cut to the chase here, for all the posters, not just you: do you really think than an ETERNAL, torturous seperation from God is actually JUST?
The definition of just is: The due reward or punishment for an act. Justice is getting what is deserved.
So someone in Iraq is raised with next to no knowledge of Jesus. They are taught from birth that Islam is the ONLY way to God. They live a good life, are not a jihadist, love their fellow man and family. One day this person steps on a roadside bomb and dies. Their act (or non-act) of not accepting Christ earns them ETERNAL, torturous seperation from God? This is due reward? This is getting what's deserved?
Blessedly, God makes more sense than His followers do.
I follow Christ's teachings. You're certainly entitled to follow whatever teaching you'd like to follow. But don't sell it to me as fact, you contradict the Word of God and claim to be the only ones that have it right.
I've stated my view, that this is a false gospel. I'm not a doubter, as you called me. I'm not throwing the Word of God out the window, as you claimed. And I do believe every Word of God, as you implied I don't. I have thoroughly read God's word and while I glean something new from it everyday, I certainly would never say 'Hey, I've got it all figured out and here's exactly how things work.' God's bigger than me. God's Word is bigger than me. I believe you are sincere, but one can be sincere and still be wrong.
Well, I certainly don't want to go to hell and personally find out. I would assume it's no fun.
Let's just cut to the chase here, for all the posters, not just you: do you really think than an ETERNAL, torturous seperation from God is actually JUST?
The definition of just is: The due reward or punishment for an act. Justice is getting what is deserved.
So someone in Iraq is raised with next to no knowledge of Jesus. They are taught from birth that Islam is the ONLY way to God. They live a good life, are not a jihadist, love their fellow man and family. One day this person steps on a roadside bomb and dies. Their act (or non-act) of not accepting Christ earns them ETERNAL, torturous seperation from God? This is due reward? This is getting what's deserved?
Blessedly, God makes more sense than His followers do.
I would just say to this that whether you, me or anyone else on earth thinks that a certain doctrine is "just" or not is NOT the way to discern whether a doctrine is true. God tells us in His word that His ways are higher than our ways. Sometimes our temporal finite minds do not understand His ways. Therefore, I think the proper question to ask is whether scripture teaches a certain doctrine or not. Not what we as fallible humans who have a limited perspective think of it. Now obviously, we on this forum have some disagreement as to what scripture actually says. And THAT'S valid. But what we "think" about a doctrine is not the right question to ask IMHO.
I follow Christ's teachings. You're certainly entitled to follow whatever teaching you'd like to follow. But don't sell it to me as fact, you contradict the Word of God and claim to be the only ones that have it right.
I've stated my view, that this is a false gospel. I'm not a doubter, as you called me. I'm not throwing the Word of God out the window, as you claimed. And I do believe every Word of God, as you implied I don't. I have thoroughly read God's word and while I glean something new from it everyday, I certainly would never say 'Hey, I've got it all figured out and here's exactly how things work.' God's bigger than me. God's Word is bigger than me. I believe you are sincere, but one can be sincere and still be wrong.
As the Word of God is the basis of what I believe, and you state that I contradict the Word of God, I guess you are saying that the Word of God contradicts itself? The Word of God IS fact, and that's all I'm "selling".
Um, when did I claim to have it all right? I do believe I'm right, of course, but I don't believe or claim to know it all.
If your not throwing the Word of God out the window, then why are you so coldly dismissing what I said, which was to quote the Word? I guess the next step would be to quote other Scriptures that seemingly contradict the ones I quoted? But then where does that lead us? Does the Word contradict itself? The answer is no, but on the surface it would appear to be so at times. Doesn't it then stand to reason that it's possible the Scriptures on hell that we have always stood on may not be properly translated?
I would just say to this that whether you, me or anyone else on earth thinks that a certain doctrine is "just" or not is NOT the way to discern whether a doctrine is true. God tells us in His word that His ways are higher than our ways. Sometimes our temporal finite minds do not understand His ways. Therefore, I think the proper question to ask is whether scripture teaches a certain doctrine or not. Not what we as fallible humans who have a limited perspective think of it. Now obviously, we on this forum have some disagreement as to what scripture actually says. And THAT'S valid. But what we "think" about a doctrine is not the right question to ask IMHO.
I understand what your saying here, but when asking someone what they think, I am assuming they are basing their response (and corresponding beliefs) upon scripture, or they probably wouldnt be answering in the 1st place. So the "proper question" is inferred.
The Book of Revelation speaks pretty strongly about what happens to those who follow the beast or whose names are not written in the Book of Life. I would just rather follow Christ now in this life and know that my name is in His book. We can only pray for our loved ones, friends and others to follow Him also. What happens after is up to God.
I understand what your saying here, but when asking someone what they think, I am assuming they are basing their response (and corresponding beliefs) upon scripture, or they probably wouldnt be answering in the 1st place. So the "proper question" is inferred.
Well, sorry if I misunderstood you, but it seemed to me you were asking if it "personally felt just" to us...based on the dictionary definition of justice.
Well, sorry if I misunderstood you, but it seemed to me you were asking if it "personally felt just" to us...based on the dictionary definition of justice.
Oh! You meant that in particular. Sorry.
Well, actually yes, I was asking if that seemed "just" to the reader. IMHO, the whole "God's ways arent our ways" arguement on this point is just ignorant. I don't care how you slice it, God gave us brains, and hearts, and expects us to use them. Since any rational person would have to agree that, no, it doesnt seem just, why is it then so hard, when coupled with proper translation of the Word, to think that God does too, and just maybe we have swallowed a lie about God's character?
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justice...by whose standard?
