Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you decide to go with an invisible fence, just be sure to purchase the one where if the dog does get through, they don't get punished for returning. Been reading way too many stories about dogs killed by wildlife because they couldn't get past the invisible fence and back to safety.
This happens far more than people think. Just ask any animal rescuer. When the drive is strong enough, a dog will fly through the ZAP on their neck without a 2nd thought - there's a reward in what they are after; but the return is just ho-hum home, so the ZAP will deter them. The former ACO in the county next to us reported picking up 2 dogs with ZAPPING collars but sadly they had no microchip. She advertised them as found and finally, the owner came to claim them saying they had gone through the "harmless" fence while he was out shopping and a neighbor had seen them return but they wouldn't submit themselves to the ZAP and they ran when the neighbor tried to get them.
Those invisible fences are not so harmless and the ZAP is cruel and inhumane. If you think it's not a big deal, put one on yourself.
My dogs were perimeter trained and still we fenced in almost an acre. They do not jump over or dig under. I do have special dogs but most (granted not all) can be trained to be happy in their yard if they are walked.
English Shepherds are a good choice. Cousins to BC and Aus shepherds and the Old Time Scotch collie mentioned above - they are all farm collies. ES will generally be better with chickens and a full variety of livestock. They guard and alert, and that is almost always enough to keep coyotes and black bear away. Might not be enough for a grouch brown bear. They herd, but are not normally driven like a BC (I've GOT TO CHASE - I'VE GOT TO CHASE) - they can kick back. All of the collie types can be good farm dogs. Aus cattle dogs are cousins - but a little more distant. They were bred to manage cattle. They tend to be more solitary - not getting along with other dogs - and independent.
Livestock guardian dogs are 24/7 guards. Some breeds will alert, others will chase that coyote or wolf, wherever it leads, and take it down if possible. Such dogs wouldn't do well on less than hundreds of acres. ALL are the ultimate in INDEPENDENT thinking dogs.
Any dog you select you should be in deep communication with the breeder to fit a dog to your needs. INDIVIDUALS VARY in temperament.
You can check out the American Working Farmcollie Association (AWFA) on Facebook if you want leads to working farmcollies, from Shelties to BC, to fit your situation.
I'm not as keen on the Belgian herding breeds, nor GSD, as modern farm dogs, but others like them.
You could also get a copy of Jan Dohner's book, "Farm Dogs: A Comprehensive Breed Guide". It's a coffee-table pretty book, but she also has the best breed descriptions I've seen anywhere. Nice photos. There is only ONE quibble I have with the book - she repeats a current mantra of LGD owners - that LGD don't herd - and herding dogs don't guard. Sounds nice, but it's not true. It is more so for LGD, although some will do safety herding - moving bunches of their livestock to a safe area - like in a barn or a fenced corner. If you have ES, Aus, or a cattle dog, they will and do guard - BUT, the difference is their focus. An LGD is 24/7 focused on the livestock. A farmcollie or cattle dog's primary focus is their human. But I'll forgive her because the rest of the book is that good - and she was new to farmcollies when the book was published.
She also covers all the other types of dogs you might want on a farm - vermin hunters, hunting dogs, etc. Highly recommend that book.
Most livestock guard dogs have a desire to wander. Whereas, people focused guard dogs tend to stick. I have both. If you are on a small place, you will be better off with a personal guard dog breed.
It's not so much a desire to wander - like a hound - it's a BIG territory. LGD will pay attention to their flock/herd. Most, when the fence breaks and the livestock get out, will go with them. A good farmcollie, otoh, will put them back inside the fence and stay there until their human arrives.
It makes sense - an LGD is supposed to protect the flock/herd - so staying with them is the ticket. A farmcollie (not necessarily a BC, tho) is about rules. The flock/herd belongs in the pasture, so they keep them there. BC are the most prey-driven of the herders, so they are about HERDING. Many BC will harrass animals, pester them, when they aren't moving them. A good farmcollie won't.
The LGD vary in their behavior patterns. There is a vid somewhere on youtube of this spread in Ontario - like thousands of sheep. They keep a few breeds of LGD for different tasks. Some to stay with the livestock, some to patrol the perimeter, some to pursue the coyotes or wolves.
It's not so much a desire to wander - like a hound - it's a BIG territory. LGD will pay attention to their flock/herd. Most, when the fence breaks and the livestock get out, will go with them. A good farmcollie, otoh, will put them back inside the fence and stay there until their human arrives.
It makes sense - an LGD is supposed to protect the flock/herd - so staying with them is the ticket. A farmcollie (not necessarily a BC, tho) is about rules. The flock/herd belongs in the pasture, so they keep them there. BC are the most prey-driven of the herders, so they are about HERDING. Many BC will harrass animals, pester them, when they aren't moving them. A good farmcollie won't.
The LGD vary in their behavior patterns. There is a vid somewhere on youtube of this spread in Ontario - like thousands of sheep. They keep a few breeds of LGD for different tasks. Some to stay with the livestock, some to patrol the perimeter, some to pursue the coyotes or wolves.
We've had LGDs for more than 25 years. We live on a Montana ranch. I would not consider one for a small place, unless it was an elderly retired dog. Their job is creating a protective bubble...what you may think is adequate sized may not be what your Great Pyrenees thinks is a large enough bubble.
We've had LGDs for more than 25 years. We live on a Montana ranch. I would not consider one for a small place, unless it was an elderly retired dog. Their job is creating a protective bubble...what you may think is adequate sized may not be what your Great Pyrenees thinks is a large enough bubble.
For those that mentioned LGDs, just curious, will they protect the human? It sounded like the OP wanted a dog to protect the humans, not their chickens (just didn't want a dog to eat the chickens). I could be wrong and I'm curious.
I think they'll bark at anyone, but LGDs are usually raised to not be particularly keyed on people, just animal predators. The ones I know will woof at us when we come, but they don't threaten us.
I would not want a pit...too much $$$$ liability. It would be a 80-100 pounder though. Has to be very intelligent, like in the German Sheperd /mix family. No retrievers, too lovey/smoochie. A lot of muscle and no brains in a dog, not my pick either. A dog rescued that is bonded to its new owner, will give its life easily to protect the one that saved them. All JMO though.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
