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"A lot of people seem to believe in the magic of creosote fires, that the fire can magically transport itself to other locations."
It's not that the fire transports itself... it is the extreme heat generated that causes adjacent materials to combust.
By 'adjacent' dont you mean in direct conact?
From previous conversations with firefighters, I was under the idea that we are generally discussing wood in direct contact with heated components, as done by installation crews [often previous homeowners or tenants].
It can be, but direct contact is not necessary to ignite...as evidenced by the link I posted about wood put in an oven igniting at 700 degrees. No direct contact with a flame required. The gasses within the wood reach a certain threshold temperature and ignite. The same could happen thru cracks in a broken chimney tile.
"Fire is the resulting reaction of an interaction between wood and oxygen and this produces heat" Link
You're both right--- energy (temperature) transfer dissapates by the square of the distance between a hotter and a colder object...When they're touching, the distance of sepration is zero. When they're two units apart, the energy transfer is down by 4, and when they're 4 units apart, it's down by 16, etc.. So using distance as the insulator is very efficient....Wood touching the pipe may well ignite. Wood an inch away probably won't, and wood 6 inches away almost suredly won't.
As Gemstone observed-- the pipe was red hot at the stove, but 6 ft up in the attic, it was already too cool to glow.
"Fire" is when the oxidation of a fuel is occurring so rapidly that it (a) is self-sustaining) and (2) the exhaust gases are so hot that they emit radiation in the visible spectrum (the flame) As that that hot gas rises, emits light, thus cooling down, it's no longer is hot enough to be visible. it's just hot air rising above the "flame portion."
The 'problem' with a chimney fire is when glowing embers go up the stove pipe and land on combustible shingles.
In my area nearly every house has shifted to a metal roof. Our roofs are not flammable.
I have seen at least one where the chimney set the surrounding roof structure on fire, and burnt the shack to the ground. I don't know the details on this, a house I drove past on the way to work for years.
I have seen at least one where the chimney set the surrounding roof structure on fire, and burnt the shack to the ground. I don't know the details on this, a house I drove past on the way to work for years.
You have likely seen dozens of those.
In alignment with the magic creosote theory, creosote built up inside the chimney for years, then one night the creosote caught fire and transported itself throughout the attic.
Or in the words of the Fire Marshal who performed the forensic analysis, something combustible was placed in contact with a heated component of the fireplace. That combustible material [wood framing?] then caught on fire, because it was hot.
RE: Threerun's wood heating stove in the garage ... as currently installed, this is a big fire safety hazard with cars and what appears to be an old gasoline-fueled tractor (a Super A, right?). If that tractor is anything like my old 8N's and Super A's, even with new repro cast-iron carburetors and updated fuel shut-off valves at the gas tank and/or fuel filter assembly along with new fuel lines ... these rigs are an ongoing source of evaporating fuel. As well, the gas tank caps on those old rigs are "breathing caps" ... so there's a source of evaporating fuel coming out of those fuel tanks.
In my experience, it's unlikely that a homeowner's insurance company will underwrite a policy with such a fire hazard in the building. Where I am on file with having a wood burning stove inside my residence, my insurance company sends out an independent inspector every 3 years to verify the integrity and proper installation of the wood stove, along with smoke and CO detector/alarms with recent batteries installed and functioning properly. FWIW, those detectors have a limited lifespan and the insurance company has required proof of their replacement in a timely manner, too.
IMO, you've got more work ahead than just putting heat ductwork into this garage space ... don't take my word for it, here's a typical synopsis of a solid fuel heating stove installation from a retailer of numerous brands of wood stoves (wett-inspections.com):
"Can you Install a Wood Stove in a Garage?
Whether you should or can installing a wood burning stove in a garage is a very confusing. There are a number of reasons that installers will take different stands on the acceptability of garage installations, and most of them are due to differences in how to interpret CSA Standards B365-10 Installation Code for Solid-Fuel-Burning Appliances and Equipment. As with all code books, B365-10 is written in a legal manner to protect from lawsuits and liabilities. This manner of rule enforcement sometimes even confuses the professionals and the home owner is just left shaking his head in bewilderment.
According to B365-10 Section 4.3 Hazardous Locations – You can install a wood stove in a garage using the following guidelines:
An appliance shall not be installed in a location where a corrosive atmosphere, flammable gas or vapour, combustible dust, or combustible fibres may be present. An appliance may be installed in a
(a) storage or residential garage, provided that the appliance is
mounted at least 450 mm (18 in) above floor level and protected
against physical damage; . . .
Protection against Physical Damage would typically be Steel or Concrete bollards installed in front of wood burning appliance to protect against accidental collision with vehicle.
For further information on installing wood burning appliances call the Barrie WETT Inspector for answers to your questions.
garage wood heater
One of the WETT past presidents has come out against installation in garages, saying, “No. It’s about common sense. The presence of gasoline alone should be reason enough for concern. This stuff is really quite dangerous. Any fuel that leaks or gets spilled quickly evaporates, and these vapors are heavier than air, so they spread out at the floor level or pool in confined spaces. Then, all it takes is a single spark to ignite a flash fire. If oily rags or solvents are present, things can turn nasty in a hurry.” this is based on the belief that there really should be no confusion in the interpretation of B365. To him, the wording clearly prohibits a solid-fuel-burning appliance within a garage that is being used for what would be traditional vehicle storage purposes. It is for this same reason that some insurance companies will not provide coverage if a solid-fuel-burning stove is installed within a garage. This view is also held by the National Fireplace Protection Agency in the United States. The NFPA specifically prohibits solid-fuel-burning appliances within a residential garage."
Further clarification of the "18 inch" clearance standard is that the bottom of an ignition source ... which would include an ash collection area under the firebox ... should be 18" above the floor level of the shop. IMO, this isn't a place to skimp on the clearances when you've got the overhead space to do an installation. I've seen a lot of workshop/storage garage installations of wood burning heating stoves and all of them have the ignition source of the stove at least 30" above the floor, with some of them mounted on a platform 5' above the floor level. Also ... there doesn't appear to be any bollards or safety barriers between the open garage space and the wood stove ... clearly a requirement of a "proper" installation of the stove in a garage area.
It's in a detached shop and it's insured separately from my house. . It's also ventilated when the stove is on and the air volume is enormous in there. Trust me- I would know if there was a vapor issue walking inside the shop which would require me to vent before heating.
This is my 'approved' heating device for my attached garage-
That's where I conduct activities with supplies that I would be much more afraid of around a solid fuel heating appliance.
If there was an issue with a solid fuel heating device in my detached shop which is an appropriate distance from my house, I would have installed a big propane sucking device there as well.
We got an insurance policy for our home two years ago. They wanted a lot of photos and had many questions about clearances. But in the end they had no problem issuing us a policy for a woodstove heated house.
My agent measured the shop distance to the house and was more concerned about the chimney type and install from the protrusion from the ceiling through the roof. We had all that done by an approved installer (the best around here)- so a copy of the bill of work was all it mattered.
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