D'oh! SA Makes List of Lowest % of Residents with College Degrees (Dallas: unemployment, schools)

[Neshomamench]

Originally Posted by kevcrawford

The drive and work ethic is the difference between those that succeed and those that don't. It may drive them to go to college and work hard, but there are just as many folks that go to college and aren't using their degree as those that are.

You can send a lazy person to college, but you can't make a lazy person successful, no matter how much education they have.

And yes, I have a BA in marketing, so this isn't the case of me trying to make myself feel better.

I look at what DRIVES someone to do well. Work ethic and drive determines a person's success. A piece of paper doesn't. I know plenty of college grads waiting tables.

How many college grads you know who wait tables doesnt change the math that most people who wait tables dont have a college degree.

I am just taking math. Your personal experiences do not change the math.

[DerpyDerp]

Originally Posted by Neshomamench

To be blunt, most successes are college educated. Most failures are not college educated.

I have a feeling you and I have very different ideas of what constitutes success and failure. Mine has very little to do with income and occupation.

[Neshomamench]

Originally Posted by DerpyDerp

I have a feeling you and I have very different ideas of what constitutes success and failure. Mine has very little to do with income and occupation.

If you want to change the meanings of words to suit your arguments go right ahead. That method is fairly transparent.

We are quantifying data sets. Not telling each other how we feel. Once we all agree on the math, then we can have a conversation about the implications of those figures and our personal thoughts on such things.

[L210]

Neshomamench, some people just don't understand the difference between personal experiences and everyone's experiences. Like you've said about a dozen times, the numbers don't lie. Personal anecdotes prove nothing. There is nothing scientific about personal feelings when looking at data sets. Feelings are not reliable sources because they not only differ from person to person, they differ from day to day within each individual. People's education and salaries are very well documented. It's all about chances and the chances of someone waiting tables with a degree is much smaller than with someone without a degree.

Unless you're in the business or service industry, most white collar fields require (and in my opinion, should require) a degree. Teachers, lawyers, doctors, nurses, other medical technicians, scientists, social scientists, social workers, engineers, etc. You can't pick up on how to do complicated math equations, medical procedures, laws, and the science behind human behavior on the job. The service industry can and is being exported; that is the problem with the U.S. economy today. The service industry is not dependable because it doesn't produce anything real; it doesn't have real value and people can mostly do without it.

If someone is so driven to work their tail off, then how come they won't work their tail off in college? Why make things harder for yourself? I know college is not for everyone, but not having a very well educated population in comparison to other developed countries is hurting the U.S.

[metromansa]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Are you saying that most people that didn't go to college are glad that they didn't?
Anytime I tell people that I have an engineering degree (especially here in San Antonio) I feel as if I'm telling them that I own a restaurant chain.

No, I'm saying one shouldn't put so much merit into a person having a degree or not.

[Neshomamench]

Originally Posted by metromansa

No, I'm saying one shouldn't put so much merit into a person having a degree or not.

A degree is how you prove to someone you have a minimum level of competence in a subject so they dont have to take your word for it.

It is not a flawless system but it works a lot better than "trust me, I know what I am doing....

[DerpyDerp]

Originally Posted by Neshomamench

We are quantifying data sets.

What are the parameters of this magical data set which you use to determine whether someone is a success or a failure?

[Neshomamench]

Originally Posted by DerpyDerp

What are the parameters of this magical data set which you use to determine whether someone is a success or a failure?

First of all, I have never used the term "failure" and I will not allow you to steer me into that corner.

Second, if you need it explained again, people with college educations are, on average, more successful than those without a college education.

It really isnt that complicated.

That is not an opinion.

That is backed up by hard math.

If you want to change the meaning of the word "success," have a conversation about how you feel about the data, tell us about all the people you know who buck that trend, or any other swing you wish to take where you throw emotion against math, be my guest.

It doesnt change the data.

Words have meaning within context. That is obvious to most people who are being honest about a subject. It reminds me of a story about the word "Rich"

(short version)

Several people are sitting around talking about their success in life at a bar and one brings up how "rich" he is. Another fellow who wants to start a business and needs investors begins to pitch his idea to the "rich" man. After a long and brilliant proposal the "rich" man pipes up and says "I am not that kind of rich, I just meant I have a good life, love, health....but I dont have much money..."

The point is, within context, words have meanings. Desparation of a position doesnt change the meanings of such words and is a fairly obvious ploy and is dishonest.

If "rich" or "success" means whatever you want it to mean, then how do we legitimatley describe the guy with millions of dollars or is the new CEO of a large company.

[DerpyDerp]

Originally Posted by Neshomamench

First of all, I have never used the term "failure" and I will not allow you to steer me into that corner.

Yes, you did. Your exact words were "To be blunt, most successes are college educated. Most failures are not college educated."

[Neshomamench]

Originally Posted by DerpyDerp

Yes, you did. Your exact words were "To be blunt, most successes are college educated. Most failures are not college educated."

Fair enough, I'll own up to that but it still doesnt change anything else.

If you dont want to address the math and keep arguing the meaning of words in an unrelated context, I understand. You can keep avoiding the issue.

Why dont you key in on the fact that...again...


People with college degrees, on average, are more successful than people without college degrees.

Do you believe that is a true statement or not?

You can point out I am ugly, you can point out how many uneducated people you know that are millionaires, you can argue the meaning of the word success...

But why? What are you trying to prove? Do you actually not undersand the context of the data? (I am sure you do, which makes the whole thing even stranger)

So, why the arguement? Why fight math with emotion? What point are you trying to make?