Goodnight San Francisco, is anyone celebrating the new Presidnent ? (roach, market)
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It's not as if 8 years of Obama created paradise on earth. There are things that can be improved. (BTW I'm a lib/independent.)
It would have created a lot more if his initiatives hadn't been stonewalled by Congress. For example, Trump's co-optation of Obama's infrastructure/job-creation initiative that was deemed too expensive by the Repubs in Congress. Suddenly, it's not too expensive? Even though the Prez-elect wants to cut taxes? Yeah, that'll work.
It's all about performance. Will President Trump improve international relations or will they get worse. In particular, how will he handle China, Iran and North Korea?
How will he handle China? I kinda think we got a sneak preview when he decided to have a friendly chat with Taiwan. IOW, he has no idea what he's doing, he's just winging it. China's mad as hell, while Trumpty-Dumpty is clueless.
Republicans have a majority now, but the Democrats had a super majority when Obama was elected. They basically sat on their hands celebrating and not angering their elite donors, which is why they have been losing most elections since.
If Trump and Republicans sit on their hands like Obama and Democrats did, then I expect to see the same thing happen again. This is not apples to oranges. It's almost identical to when Obama was first elected.
Republicans have a majority now, but the Democrats had a super majority when Obama was elected. They basically sat on their hands celebrating and not angering their elite donors, which is why they have been losing most elections since.
If Trump and Republicans sit on their hands like Obama and Democrats did, then I expect to see the same thing happen again. This is not apples to oranges. It's almost identical to when Obama was first elected.
I'll reply again since I see this post got some traction.
I was very specifically comparing the last 6 years to what Trump will be walking into. It's not an apples to apples comparison.
Obama's first term may have been similar (although there was no vacancy on the Supreme court that the previous Congress refused to hear hearings on (possibly illegally - talk about cry babies*)), but that wasn't my point.
But while we're on that topic, I'm not sure where this narrative of "sitting on their hands" originated from (or what selective memory you're using to get to that point), but it's not really true. I can point to a few important things just in the first couple of weeks of Obama's term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...ck_Obama_(2009)
Do you not remember how the ACA came to be? One of the most controversial acts of the last decade (or more?)...that was hatched up in those first 2 years (it was enacted barely a year after he was inaugurated). That's not sitting on your hands. Unless, of course, you have a really weird definition of "sitting on your hands" - in which case, I'd apply that to pretty much all presidents.
Or maybe you didn't pay attention because you didn't agree with his moves? That may be the case...but he wasn't sitting there twiddling his thumbs. He was definitely doing something, almost something notable every day.
If anything, I think they did too much in those first two years. 2010's midterm elections were a reaction to how much change the Obama administration were trying to force too soon - and people reacted (mostly away from that change). Obama and his team would have been more successful, likely, if they had paced themselves more. Their last six years were mostly defined by governmental stalemates (*with childish tea parties kicking and screaming, stomping until they get what they wanted...even shutting down the entire F-ing government (again, freaking CRY babies)), and comparatively less progress was made.
* If you can't tell, I think our Congress is freaking inept, often to an illegal degree. Almost all of them should be booted out. They need to learn the word "compromise", something we teach to five year olds in freaking kindergarten.
You mean the Obamacare where the average bronze plan is in the $300s or if you actually want a good plan, you'll be looking in the $500s per month? It helped a small percent of population on the backs of the majority of working population. I'm sure the elite donors had their hand in Obamacare because it is anything, but affordable to the average person and don't even get me started on prescription medicine. Did we really rebuild our infrastructure as promised? Hmmm it's funny, but I heard all the same promises from Hillary that Obama made 8 years ago. They sat on their hands and passed a couple things that benefited the 1%. Did we stop policing the world? Did we stop getting involved in regime changes?
I voted for Obama, I even donated $100 to him, which was the first and only time I've ever given money to a politician. I thought he was inspirational and would bring real change to Washington and the country, but all his passion disappeared once he was elected. They were too busy celebrating and the things they did pass were co-written by their elite donors, which is why they lost so many seats. There is no fight or leadership from Obama to make deals happen. That is the problem with elite politicians. I believe Trump is pragmatic, we are already seeing this, but time will tell...
You mean the Obamacare where the average bronze plan is in the $300s or if you actually want a good plan, you'll be looking in the $500s per month? It helped a small percent of population on the backs of the majority of working population. I'm sure the elite donors had their hand in Obamacare because it is anything, but affordable to the average person and don't even get me started on prescription medicine. Did we really rebuild our infrastructure as promised? Hmmm it's funny, but I heard all the same promises from Hillary that Obama made 8 years ago. They sat on their hands and passed a couple things that benefited the 1%. Did we stop policing the world? Did we stop getting involved in regime changes?
I voted for Obama, I even donated $100 to him, which was the first and only time I've ever given money to a politician. I thought he was inspirational and would bring real change to Washington and the country, but all his passion disappeared once he was elected. They were too busy celebrating and the things they did pass were co-written by their elite donors, which is why they lost so many seats. There is no fight or leadership from Obama to make deals happen. That is the problem with elite politicians. I believe Trump is pragmatic, we are already seeing this, but time will tell...
OK - now you're changing the argument! You said all they did was celebrate their victory and sit on their hands. I was merely pointing out how you were wrong.
He did try to do a lot of the things that he promised - but many things were knocked down by the R Congress post 2010. A great example is the high speed rail system in the US that he wanted to spur/build...his stimulus plan was pretty big. Much of the things he wanted to do, though, fell apart soon after the 2010 midterms. Basically, after 2010, anything that he wanted to do was destined to fail. Is that really Obama's fault? Well, his solely? I think there's plenty of blame to go around, and the lack of compromise is a huge problem in Washington.
Voting Trump in isn't going to change these disfunctionally-minded politicians...the difference now is you have a bunch of people that want the same things as him - and I don't see the American people voting against these clowns (I mean, if they can basically do absolutely nothing but complain/whine for 4-6 years and get re-elected, why would 2 years of a Trump presidency change their minds?).
Whether or not you agree with the ACA (or any of other other things he actually did set in motion in his first two years) was not the point of my post...
The average premiums in the nation's individual health insurance market "actually dropped significantly" in 2014, the year that the Affordable Care Act took effect, "even while consumers got better coverage," according to two health-care analysts whose findings challenge a popular narrative about Obamacare prices.
...
Adler and Ginsburg said their analysis shows that average premiums for a closely watched, important type of Obamacare plan — known as second-lowest cost silver plans — had average premiums in 2014 that "were between 10 and 21 percent lower than average individual market premiums in 2013, before the ACA." That's despite the fact that silver plans cover a larger percentage of customers' health costs than the average individual plan did before Obamacare.
...
And even if Obamacare premiums jump by 10 to 15 percent next year, "they will still be far lower than premiums otherwise would have been in the absence of the law," the analysts say.
"That the ACA might have caused premiums to drop so precipitously when its marketplaces took effect may seem surprising at first — it was to us," they wrote.
"However, the premium reductions make more sense upon deeper analysis," said Adler, associate director of the Center for Health Policy at the Brookings Institution, and Ginsburg, who is a professor of the practice of health policy and management at the University of Southern California.
Their article comes as California's Obamacare marketplace has revealed that rates on that health exchange will rise by an average of 13.2 percent next year. Many Obamacare insurance plans elsewhere have proposed increasing premiums by high single-digit or double-digit percentages for coverage in 2017.
Those private plans, so-called individual market plans, are sold to individuals who do not have health coverage through either their jobs, or through government programs such as Medicare and Medicaid.
The article's title, "Obamacare Premiums are Lower Than You Think," reflects the fact that after Obamacare took effect in 2014 there have been frequent stories in the media about premium increases "for certain plans, in certain cities, or for certain individuals," the authors note.
Those stories have reinforced a belief that the implementation of the ACA has, on average, led to a marked increase in the price that people who buy individual health plans pay, as compared to what they paid prior to Obamacare.
The authors point out that such a belief is understandable, given the fact that ACA barred insurers from either denying coverage to less-healthy people, or charging them higher rates than healthy people. Obamacare also required health plans "to cover a broader set of benefits, and imposed new taxes and regulations," which also would be expected to increase insurers' costs, and hence premium rates.
But what actually happened, the authors said, is just the opposite.
You're also conveniently ignoring the fact that millions of people who didn't have health coverage had it after the ACA passed. That is good for the common man. But the picture of "ACA bad - was better before!" is not as clear as you're making it out to be. There's some nuance there that is really still not fully understood.
And repealing ACA for whatever Trump puts in isn't going to change this issue of increased health care costs (unless something really drastic to restrict costs (something the medical and Insurance industries will resist VERY heavily) is put in the new bill). The debates on this are going to be critical, and hugely controversial - I bet a lot of Republicans won't actually be in favor of a plan that is both good for the common man and their deep pockets (let's be real here, these industries provide a lot of funding for these politicians - I know because I work in Biotech). If you think money has left politics with the election of Donal Trump, you are being incredibly naive.
As well, where would we be without some of the stimulus packages that existed during the recession? I see a lot of blame being thrown around here...but we still do have growth going on right now.
I wish Trump the best of luck - but it's not like anything he is proposing is a destined to succeed. I'm very skeptical, and after reading all of his proposed items of business, I remain strongly skeptical.
But the last thing I actually want to see is him fail (as that would be bad for all of us) - so I definitely hope I'm wrong!
Last edited by HockeyMac18; 12-06-2016 at 02:18 PM..
How will he handle China? I kinda think we got a sneak preview when he decided to have a friendly chat with Taiwan. IOW, he has no idea what he's doing, he's just winging it. China's mad as hell, while Trumpty-Dumpty is clueless.
I say china should sell their real estate holdings in the Bay Area. That'll show trump!
I find it humorous to see all the people so appalled because Trump doesn't act the way they expect a President should. Of course, when the shoe is on the other foot on something they determine important (i.e. co-ed restrooms), then people can behave any way they want (typical Liberal narrative). Here's a great article that shows the power of using things like Twitter to get public opinion on your side....
"Another day, another provocative tweet from President-elect Donald Trump. This time, he went after Boeing and the cost of the new Air Force One replacement program. But while the target was different, the goal of Trump's twitter use remains the same: It's his negotiating tool and, just as importantly, an instant link to public support that no president has ever been able to use before. (the cost of the planes were estimated at $3-$4 billion)
And it looks like it may have already worked. About two hours after the tweet, Boeing delivered the following statement:
"We are currently under contract for $170 million to help determine the capabilities of these complex military aircraft that serves the unique requirements of the President of the United States. We look forward to working with the U.S. Air Force on subsequent phases of the program allowing us to deliver the best planes for the President at the best value for the American taxpayer."
Yes, that "at the best value" phrase at the end of the statement says it all. Who knows exactly how much the Trump tweet just saved the American taxpayers? But considering that it cost him and us nothing for him to send it, even a few hundred grand looks like a big net windfall."
And sorry, I'm not buying for a second that Libs in this area want him to succeed. I know people cheering for the stock market to crash just so they can validate that Trump is the anti-Christ. Stupid is as stupid does I guess.
I find it humorous to see all the people so appalled because Trump doesn't act the way they expect a President should. Of course, when the shoe is on the other foot on something they determine important (i.e. co-ed restrooms), then people can behave any way they want (typical Liberal narrative). Here's a great article that shows the power of using things like Twitter to get public opinion on your side....
"Another day, another provocative tweet from President-elect Donald Trump. This time, he went after Boeing and the cost of the new Air Force One replacement program. But while the target was different, the goal of Trump's twitter use remains the same: It's his negotiating tool and, just as importantly, an instant link to public support that no president has ever been able to use before. (the cost of the planes were estimated at $3-$4 billion)
And it looks like it may have already worked. About two hours after the tweet, Boeing delivered the following statement:
"We are currently under contract for $170 million to help determine the capabilities of these complex military aircraft that serves the unique requirements of the President of the United States. We look forward to working with the U.S. Air Force on subsequent phases of the program allowing us to deliver the best planes for the President at the best value for the American taxpayer."
Yes, that "at the best value" phrase at the end of the statement says it all. Who knows exactly how much the Trump tweet just saved the American taxpayers? But considering that it cost him and us nothing for him to send it, even a few hundred grand looks like a big net windfall."
I find it humorous to see all the people so appalled because Trump doesn't act the way they expect a President should. Of course, when the shoe is on the other foot on something they determine important (i.e. co-ed restrooms), then people can behave any way they want (typical Liberal narrative). Here's a great article that shows the power of using things like Twitter to get public opinion on your side....
"Another day, another provocative tweet from President-elect Donald Trump. This time, he went after Boeing and the cost of the new Air Force One replacement program. But while the target was different, the goal of Trump's twitter use remains the same: It's his negotiating tool and, just as importantly, an instant link to public support that no president has ever been able to use before. (the cost of the planes were estimated at $3-$4 billion)
And it looks like it may have already worked. About two hours after the tweet, Boeing delivered the following statement:
"We are currently under contract for $170 million to help determine the capabilities of these complex military aircraft that serves the unique requirements of the President of the United States. We look forward to working with the U.S. Air Force on subsequent phases of the program allowing us to deliver the best planes for the President at the best value for the American taxpayer."
Yes, that "at the best value" phrase at the end of the statement says it all. Who knows exactly how much the Trump tweet just saved the American taxpayers? But considering that it cost him and us nothing for him to send it, even a few hundred grand looks like a big net windfall."
And sorry, I'm not buying for a second that Libs in this area want him to succeed. I know people cheering for the stock market to crash just so they can validate that Trump is the anti-Christ. Stupid is as stupid does I guess.
I'm
Hoping he crashes the Bay Area economy
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Even though the Prez-elect wants to cut taxes? Yeah, that'll work. 
