Please, no more low income housing in Marin! (San Diego, Santa Ana: to rent, crime)

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by Hiruko

I'm from Chicagoland. We had the most infamous public housing "projects" in the nation. Many of those massive towers and rows and rows of townhomes were rightfully disassembled. That is a flawed model.

However, I grew up in a suburban area with integrated Section 8 apartments and municipally financed 2-4 household townhomes interspersed in a neighborhood where the median home value is in excess of $1.3 million. That is an effective model, and that's what most affordable housing developments and programs look like today.

Maybe in your area. Tell me where else you see this. Have you gone through Birmingham Alabama or Atlanta?

Keep in mind not all sec 8 in in housing projects either. There are plenty of neighborhoods with individual homes and small multis that are not mixed in with million dollar homes. But the homeowners will tel you that some of the trouble and blight comes from sec 8 occupied homes that drag the neighborhood down.

[silverkris]

Originally Posted by Hiruko

I'm from Chicagoland. We had the most infamous public housing "projects" in the nation. Many of those massive towers and rows and rows of townhomes were rightfully disassembled. That is a flawed model.

However, I grew up in a suburban area with integrated Section 8 apartments and municipally financed 2-4 household townhomes interspersed in a neighborhood where the median home value is in excess of $1.3 million. That is an effective model, and that's what most affordable housing developments and programs look like today.

There are also affordable and public housing that works very well and isn't stigmatized, in places like Singapore (80% of the population) and Vienna, Austria.

https://www.shareable.net/blog/publi...-and-singapore

[Ultrarunner]

Here Section 8 actually means individual units/homes leased from private owners and is called Leased Housing and Conventional Housing is the name for the Projects...

For many years the wait for Conventional Housing was often measured in months and Leased Housing in years...

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

Keep in mind not all sec 8 in in housing projects either. There are plenty of neighborhoods with individual homes and small multis that are not mixed in with million dollar homes. But the homeowners will tel you that some of the trouble and blight comes from sec 8 occupied homes that drag the neighborhood down.

Don't you think that the problem tenants are there because the property owner or management company did a crappy job vetting the applicants? A section 8 family recently moved into our neighborhood and they are delightful, they take better care of the yard than the owner did when he lived in the house. They're friendly, clean and helpful. I would rather live next door to them than the people who just moved in next to me. Two families went in together to buy the house and they party from Friday afternoon until about 3 AM on Monday morning, this weekend there were 12 cars parked on the street (their guests) and we were all "entertained" by their loud music and drinking games

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Don't you think that the problem tenants are there because the property owner or management company did a crappy job vetting the applicants? A section 8 family recently moved into our neighborhood and they are delightful, they take better care of the yard than the owner did when he lived in the house. They're friendly, clean and helpful. I would rather live next door to them than the people who just moved in next to me. Two families went in together to buy the house and they party from Friday afternoon until about 3 AM on Monday morning, this weekend there were 12 cars parked on the street (their guests) and we were all "entertained" by their loud music and drinking games

Sometimes yes. Just seeing how people say how horrible it is to own rental real estate and their experiences here on cd tells me they did not vette renters well. A tenant like your sec 8 family is like my first, they were great. It's the majority that I saw afterwards that are not. Part of what helps keep some tenants in line is their financial stake and credit worthiness stake. With sec 8 they have little at stake so in my opinion are more likely to not be good tenants. If you can get a tenant who has a good working history and credit, they tend to be more financially responsible and thus the more likelihood of being a good tenant.
I feel for your situation . I rented a few years when I moved to Atlanta. The neighbors were so happy as I was a good tenant. The last two were loud, invited friends over to party and parked vehicles like semi truck rigs in the neighborhood. They were always calling the police on them.
You need to get the neighborhood to rally against the new people to keep from destroying the peace of where you live.

[80skeys]

Originally Posted by Ceece

Ehh. You earn enough to be able to live away from riff raff

No. What we should be doing is what China does: the Chinese government makes the poor and rich live together in the same neighborhoods. That's why, when you're walking around Shanghai, all the neighborhoods look the same. There aren't any poor neighborhoods, there aren't any rich neighborhoods. Everyone lives together.
Does it work? Yeah, it works very well. Streets are clean, there is no crime.
It pays to travel and see how other people do things, get out of your narrow-minded world.

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by 80skeys

No. What we should be doing is what China does: the Chinese government makes the poor and rich live together in the same neighborhoods. That's why, when you're walking around Shanghai, all the neighborhoods look the same. There aren't any poor neighborhoods, there aren't any rich neighborhoods. Everyone lives together.
Does it work? Yeah, it works very well. Streets are clean, there is no crime.
It pays to travel and see how other people do things, get out of your narrow-minded world.

I would imagine China is pretty strict on crime and punishment so that less crime is committed?

[80skeys]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

I would imagine China is pretty strict on crime and punishment so that less crime is committed?

Indeed.

[tstieber]

Originally Posted by 80skeys

No. What we should be doing is what China does: the Chinese government makes the poor and rich live together in the same neighborhoods. That's why, when you're walking around Shanghai, all the neighborhoods look the same. There aren't any poor neighborhoods, there aren't any rich neighborhoods. Everyone lives together.
Does it work? Yeah, it works very well. Streets are clean, there is no crime.
It pays to travel and see how other people do things, get out of your narrow-minded world.

That's socialism. You pretty much have to build that from the ground up. American cities are already a sea of neighborhoods defined by socioeconomic levels. Pretty impossible to undo it. It's capitalism. We just have to find ways of helping those in need within our structure.

I can say that I live in one of those affluent neighborhoods with average home values in excess of $1.5 mil, and we have Section 8 apartments in the middle of the community. (This is in San Diego) They look like market rate apartments and blend in visually very well. They are clean and well maintained. Still... many of the apartments, as well as their pool area, have ocean views, for $600 a month. We pay a lot for our homes and don't even get those views. Why does subsidized housing need ocean views? That's like a deterrent to people moving up and out. Also, this neighborhood requires long drives to those residents' jobs -- not by any means practical. And none of the Section 8 residents have any opportunity to interact with the homeowners. So what goals are being achieved by putting the housing here? . It's utopian idealism over pragmatism.

Now most residents in the subsidized housing are quiet and clean, but... there are social problems. There are enough bad apples who constantly run stop signs, blast loud music from their apartments, and cause domestic disturbances. Also, car and home break ins are almost always traced to residents there, who then get kicked out and prosecuted. New ones follow. The police says that 80 percent of calls in this area go to that complex, even though it comprises only one fifth of the total housing units in the community. So the crime rate in that complex is twenty times that of the surrounding neighborhood. I realize only a small number of people cause these problems, but they're always going to be living among Section 8 housing. So part of the effect of redistributing real estate to the poor is also redistributing crime to the broader community. Meanwhile, the subsidized residents have no access to public transportation or proximity to jobs. I don't see how this is in any way good city planning. We may all live near each other, but no social goal is actually achieved. It's only good on paper.

[jnojr]

Originally Posted by Troy Troy

This may sound heartless and as if I'm speaking against my own self-interest, considering I'm African-American, but I beg of the citizens of Marin County to fight low income housing as stridently as you can!

The voters of Marin County want low-income housing, it should be next to them. Not next to those of us who do vote against it every chance we get.