4 Oakland Officers Killed (San Francisco, Daly City, Berkeley: rent, purchase, place to live)

[MrSykes]

Originally Posted by jman650

It's this exact attitude of passing the buck and not owning any responsibility for the conditions set in these neighborhoods that allowed them to deteriorate in the first place, and it is what is keeping them that way now. There is some truth to what you say, but keeping the communities safe begins at the parental level, and then the other issues factor in. There are good parents that succeed at keeping their children out of trouble even though they live in the ghetto.

Very true, as my mother is one of those parents.

Making excuses for why things are the way they are rather than taking ANY initiative to make a change (like helping to fix the property you live in instead of posting on the block with the homies) will get you nowhere. Accepting SOME responsibility instead of laying all the blame on the establishment and feeling entitled to have all this fixed for you is the only way things will improve.

Again, not in disagreement. And I know that there is a big difference between entitlements and an entitlement mentality. Nothing wrong with the former, and contrary to what many conservatives will argue, the former does not necessarily contribute to the latter. True personal responsibility would entail seeking out and utilizing the entitlements afforded to you as a stepping stone to bigger and better things.

My girlfriend's parents grew up in REAL poverty in the Philippines, without running water or electricity way back. Her dad grew up in a wooden shack with a tin roof that stood on stilts over water, and the inside of their bathroom was completely visible to the street they faced. He never felt entitled to anything, and only through hard work joined the US Navy and came over here, and after several years established himself and petitioned his wife to come here as a citizen. Do you think he would have ever gotten out of the Philippines and improved his life if he just sat there and blamed all his problems on his corrupt government?

Of course not, but if the government expects personal responsibility from us, who's to say we can't expect the same of the government? After all, they are our representatives, right?

[E14]

Originally Posted by Beat02

You should at least view the police and law enforcement in general as a "necessary evil" considering it's unlawful for you to bypass the system and deliver justice within your own means.

Anyways, this is a horrible happening. It's always such a bummer to hear when officers go down in the line of duty at the hands of scum bags.

I dont view law enforcement as necessary at all. Street justice, while unlawful (seriously, no one gives a **** about laws, this is oakland), will always weed out the less intelligent and weaker criminals. This is much better than the government shipping suburban ex-marines into the ghetto to dish out their own brand of badge-justified "justice" which is what they are doing now.

[MrSykes]

Originally Posted by sav858

I agree with this somewhat but I do not think it would be good for police morale and solidarity if they start turning on each other in the public eye like that. Not saying they should condone illegal actions by other cops and look the other way or anything like that but I can see why cops don't come out and talk crap about other cops to the press. Also just b/c other cops don't come out and talk to the press about the situation, which I would assume is against department policy to begin with, doesn't mean they don't think an illegal action by a fellow cop is alright or that they don't feel for the victim. I don't know whether they do or not but I don't make assumptions about that either like you are doing.

No one said standing up for what is right would be easy. And if it means jeopardizing unit morale and personal reputation then so be it. If anything, I would consider being a whistle-blower to departmental corruption in the interest of fostering a more transparent image of the police more a sign of bravery than playing tough guy on the streets.

Also I think the social problems in inner cities is a helluva lot more prevalent and debilitating to the community than crooked cops. Your little examples here and there pales in comparison to what goes on in these communities every day.

But we're talking about police-community strife here, and problems on both sides are equally prevalent and both contribute to the cycle of violence that will unfortunately continue to claim the lives of young black men and officers alike.

Yes I am very aware of the whole "culture/cycle of poverty" and how it comes about. Living in a poor neighborhood with lots of poverty isn't an excuse for violence imo. Yes poverty contributes to a myriad of social problems but you can't just keep blaming the ghetto and outside forces for the constant violence in these areas.

Not all poor areas are violent either. Take a look at the city of Fresno with its 26% poverty rate then take a look at Oakland with its 20% poverty rate and compare the crime rates. Fresno is a MUCH SAFER city with much less crime than Oakland despite being even poorer. Poverty is NOT an excuse for violence.

You can only blame so many different people, groups, institutions, etc before you finally just need to suck it up and accept responsibility for your own actions and your community. I recognize and understand most all of the past problems and actions that have lead to the decline of many communities but its pathetic how some people keep using that as some excuse and a crutch for their lack of values and morals.

I agree. At the end of the day, values and morals are ultimately dictated by those who have the capacity to agree or not agree to live by them, no matter the circumstances. And poverty may not be an excuse for violence, but it is certainly a key component of the overall set of conditions that allow violence in certain communities to thrive in the first place. The key is not becoming victim to a mindset of poverty and deprivation, which inevitably leads to frustration and, well, violence.

Hard to do though when one is born into an environment where values and morals often take a back seat to expediency, thrift, and gratuitous pleasure. Poverty has a way of making some people focus on having at any cost rather than having at the cost of creating and producing.

[Woody7]

Someday a simple decision will have to be made, Us or them. The boil over point is closer than most think.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by MrSykes

Since it's rarely enforced, it might very well be the case then that the officer just decided to selectively enforce it against him, rather than some soccer mom on her phone cruising down Skyline Blvd on the way home.

Doesn''t really matter, if it against the law and he was breaking the law, they had every right to pull him over..

Several years ago we were driving in the Dallas area, 3 cars were side by side, all drivng about 10 miles over the speed limit. Guess what? My husband got pulled over, not the other two, why? I don't know but we always thought it was because we had a Washington Redskins bumper sticker: a no no in Dallas...Were we speeding, Yes, so we deserved the ticket...Was the cop profiling, probably..

Nita

[VLWH]

Originally Posted by MrSykes

Since it's rarely enforced, it might very well be the case then that the officer just decided to selectively enforce it against him, rather than some soccer mom on her phone cruising down Skyline Blvd on the way home.

I know what you mean, a few years ago a black officer gave me a ticket for speeding. I know it was just because i'm white, I just know it.

[iTsLiKeAnEgG]

Yeah, the profiling and racially meditated violence against whites can sometimes be over bearing. I’m open to all nationalities, in fact most of my friends are from cultures other than my own. But living as a young white kid in the Fillmore (when I just came to the states, before my family rose out of poverty) I was always approached by black children who gave me crap, threw glass bottles at me, etc because I was white living among them. Soon enough I got some of my buddies and we laid them out until they learned to keep their distance. A few broken noses will do that to you.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG

[color=black]Yeah, the profiling and racially meditated violence against whites can sometimes be over bearing.

I think that poster was being facetious... LOL. Not to say white people can't face discrimination, but I'd hardly call it overbearing - at least not in comparison to what other races face. I've been the white minority in black & Latino neighborhoods, and nobody ever gave me a hard time. I did get targeted more by the homeless, though, since I think they assumed I would have money!

[iTsLiKeAnEgG]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

I think that poster was being facetious... LOL. Not to say white people can't face discrimination, but I'd hardly call it overbearing - at least not in comparison to what other races face. I've been among the only white people in black & Latino neighborhoods, and nobody ever gave me a hard time. I did get targeted more by the homeless, though, since I think they assumed I would have money!

Don't worry, I sense the sarcasm. My point still stands though, being white doesn't automatically make living life a piece of cake especially when you're playing on the same economic/educational terms as other minorities living in the same space as you. Minorities in these communities target whites, even though they are facing similar hardships and living under the same circumstances.

[MrSykes]

Originally Posted by nmnita

Doesn''t really matter, if it against the law and he was breaking the law, they had every right to pull him over..

Several years ago we were driving in the Dallas area, 3 cars were side by side, all drivng about 10 miles over the speed limit. Guess what? My husband got pulled over, not the other two, why? I don't know but we always thought it was because we had a Washington Redskins bumper sticker: a no no in Dallas...Were we speeding, Yes, so we deserved the ticket...Was the cop profiling, probably..

Nita

Of course you deserved the ticket, but not to be profiled.