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Old 05-24-2012, 10:49 PM
 
706 posts, read 1,877,366 times
Reputation: 889

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
Why am i not surprised to find out that china is making our sensitive military parts. Sorry if i offend anyone but what a bunch of f**king morons in D.C..
Is it time to go back to the US-made $30 screw drivers and $300 toilet seats?

Do we know whether those "fake" parts are exactly identical to US made parts, same R&D, same specs,same rigorous testing, same quality control, same US defense department oversight? Just a lot cheaper, without the label of a company owned by a big political campaign donor.
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:18 PM
 
Location: USA
7,482 posts, read 6,041,443 times
Reputation: 12402
I worked in the defense industry for a decade.

I can confirm that this IS happening now, and has happened in the past.

It's happened with everything from critical hardware supposedly made from a specific series of corrosion resistant steel (which was actually made out of glorified scrap metal from China that rusted if you looked at it the wrong way) to electronic components. Only a few years back at my former employer, an entire mission-critical defense system had to be torn down and every key line replaceable module in it had to be reworked to remove the counterfeit "Made in China" components. The parts were failing during the burn-in phase of testing; there is no way they would have lasted in the field.

But, hey, it's cheaper, and America needs to compete in the global workforce - that includes counterfeit crud, right? Hahaha... ugh.

Oh, with regard to an earlier comment about Americans being unwilling to work in factories... what factories? And are these factories going to pay a living wage based upon this nation's high cost of living? If not, who can blame Americans - or anyone - for not wanting to work hard and still be unable to pay their bills.
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:54 PM
 
706 posts, read 1,877,366 times
Reputation: 889
Have American defense contractors ever, in the past, used "fake" or "counterfeit" parts that were made in Taiwan or South Korea or Israel, or any other trading partner with a capitalist economy? If so, where was the outrage then, and the what-if screams about compromising national security or the lives of our servicemen?
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,116 posts, read 27,389,591 times
Reputation: 16277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
I worked in the defense industry for a decade.

I can confirm that this IS happening now, and has happened in the past.

It's happened with everything from critical hardware supposedly made from a specific series of corrosion resistant steel (which was actually made out of glorified scrap metal from China that rusted if you looked at it the wrong way) to electronic components. Only a few years back at my former employer, an entire mission-critical defense system had to be torn down and every key line replaceable module in it had to be reworked to remove the counterfeit "Made in China" components. The parts were failing during the burn-in phase of testing; there is no way they would have lasted in the field.

But, hey, it's cheaper, and America needs to compete in the global workforce - that includes counterfeit crud, right? Hahaha... ugh.

Oh, with regard to an earlier comment about Americans being unwilling to work in factories... what factories? And are these factories going to pay a living wage based upon this nation's high cost of living? If not, who can blame Americans - or anyone - for not wanting to work hard and still be unable to pay their bills.
I'm in GA, but we have the exact same problems. It's getting increasingly difficult to find decent parts and it can get expensive and time consuming to constantly cross reference ISO certs and research 8130s to make sure a part is good. It took me years to build up a good procurement vendor list and I damn well took it with me when I left.



Quote:
Originally Posted by irman View Post
You are right about the fact that we should be past the 700 toilet seat, 300 hammer and 25 bolt, although I suspect that it might still go on, due to the human greed, we sadly all possess.
Like *jetjockey*, I too was in that business, and I know what he is talking about, when it comes to parts that are *ready made* such as bolt, nuts and washers (as a simple statement).
When jetjockey talks a bout a 15k item, he is not talking about toilet seats but he is talking about complete systems or components, such as valves or actuators as an example. It is really difficult to determine if the rework done is legit or not. Especially in systems, even one *fake* bolt, can ruin a whole airplane. Our job is *on the line*, wether it is from keeping within the budget or making sure everything is truly certified ...
Everything we buy, has to have a CC and they are easily faked.
So, we are definitively NOT *alluding* to a *problem*.
There is nothing *alleged* here. Take it from the guys who are constantly on the edge of their seats.

It does not really start in *China* ! It starts at home, when the profit margins start to diminish.
Budgets are cut, but requirements stay the same. From there is is all going downhill when it comes to quality !
We, as end users, are holding just a piece of paper, and you hope it is all legit !
Nuff sed

I'm a she

Regardless, this is exactly what I was talking about. I'm an A&P mechanic and when I was on the floor the stress was unimaginable. I went into parts because I'm good at finding the impossible, but when I was called out to help out it still made me nervous signing work orders off.

As for the $700 toilet seat... I did send out the shell of the toilet off of a Cessna CJ2 to get refurbed a few months ago and it was around $1500 for structural certification and veneer replacement, so that's not too terribly far off the mark.
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