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Check out his other articles on 'backyard grains' that are linked at the bottom. I found the one on estimating space needed to be very enlightening, since many folks would have you believe that you need massive acreage of open field to grow grains "properly".
A lot of my research has shown that most grains are pretty hardy little plants, tolerate a lot of imperfect growing conditions, and will pretty much grow anywhere -- they are, after all, a grass and we all know that grasses don't necessarily need much encouragement Now, for a profit farmer, you'd want everything perfect and that makes grains a major PITA... but a homesteader or backyarder who just wants enough to feed the family and a few critters, you can happily accept less than perfect yields and deal with cultivation and harvesting that's a little more (manual) labor intensive than a nice big flat field that you can drive a monstrous tractor and combine through! Hand weeding, or just letting the weeds grow, also not as much of an issue because 'purity' is not necessarily that important when you're not selling it. Your pigs and chickens won't care if there is a weed or two in the sorghum, and you can always pick out any weeds from your portion while you're threshing and winnowing. From a perspective of attempting to be as self-sufficient as possible, the extra labor involved in small-scale grain production and processing isn't necessarily cost-ineffective... not if it means you can feed yourself and your animals "free" for a chunk of your time rather than a huge feed bill (or as huge a one) at the granary/mill.
Raising/growing your own may not make financial sense to profit farmers and factory farmers in industrial agriculture because you can get your food "cheaper" just letting the "pros" supply your supermarket. And this may be true if you only look at the balance on the supermarket receipt... but for SS&P folks, knowing that you can feed your family if the supermarkets were bare and having control over what foods you're eating is worth the time, effort, and any imbalance that might apper superficially in the checkbook.
Check out his other articles on 'backyard grains' that are linked at the bottom. I found the one on estimating space needed to be very enlightening, since many folks would have you believe that you need massive acreage of open field to grow grains "properly".
A lot of my research has shown that most grains are pretty hardy little plants, tolerate a lot of imperfect growing conditions, and will pretty much grow anywhere -- they are, after all, a grass and we all know that grasses don't necessarily need much encouragement Now, for a profit farmer, you'd want everything perfect and that makes grains a major PITA... but a homesteader or backyarder who just wants enough to feed the family and a few critters, you can happily accept less than perfect yields and deal with cultivation and harvesting that's a little more (manual) labor intensive than a nice big flat field that you can drive a monstrous tractor and combine through! Hand weeding, or just letting the weeds grow, also not as much of an issue because 'purity' is not necessarily that important when you're not selling it. Your pigs and chickens won't care if there is a weed or two in the sorghum, and you can always pick out any weeds from your portion while you're threshing and winnowing. From a perspective of attempting to be as self-sufficient as possible, the extra labor involved in small-scale grain production and processing isn't necessarily cost-ineffective... not if it means you can feed yourself and your animals "free" for a chunk of your time rather than a huge feed bill (or as huge a one) at the granary/mill.
Raising/growing your own may not make financial sense to profit farmers and factory farmers in industrial agriculture because you can get your food "cheaper" just letting the "pros" supply your supermarket. And this may be true if you only look at the balance on the supermarket receipt... but for SS&P folks, knowing that you can feed your family if the supermarkets were bare and having control over what foods you're eating is worth the time, effort, and any imbalance that might apper superficially in the checkbook.
The phrase------penny wise and pound foolish-----comes to mind.
FB is able to buy his grain from another grower at a very reasonable price.
Why should someone go back to the ways of 1800 ( and invest lots of time consuming labor) just to proclaim-------" I'm self sufficent, I'm self sufficent"
Also, why do you go to an opposite extreme in trying to make a point.
Example-------monstorouis tractor and cmbine--
I don't know if FB buys his grain from a huge grain farmer, but I doubt that cuz a huge grain farmer wouldn't fool around sacking up a ton of oats in 50 lb sacks. ( especially not if he is selling it at a very reasonable price )
^ Last time I checked, this IS the self-sufficiency forum, does that explain why someone would wish to grow their own grain to feed their own chickens?
That being said, we are looking at growing our own, not sure we can or will, but DH and I have been discussing and researching the subject.
FB mentioned that living in the forest precluded being as self-sufficient with grains for feed as they are with other things. I got the impression, this was something of a concern, regardless of whether inexpensive grains could be found locally from another grower. Being someone else who lives in the forest and also plans to have livestock and wants to be as self-sufficient as possible, I thought I'd share some of the research I found about small-scale grain production, particularly in forested areas, so FB could look into it if interested.
Penny-wise and pound-foolish cuts both ways. You can save a penny today buying from someone else, and end up paying a pound tomorrow if the market changes or in medical bills or something else that could be a concern for someone (we all have different concerns and priorities).
I made the hyperbole of a monstrous tractor and combine because I get lots of feedback from profit farmers that you *need* all that kind of equipment and large fields etc to grow grains successfully, and that small-scale homegrowers who do it by hand are simply going to fail because it just isn't cost-effective to do it "the 1800's way" (which is, of course, a hyperbole the other way). When the truth of the matter is grains, in themselves, are fairly easy to grow and process on a small-scale by hand or with minimal equipment on small acreage (in forest openings even) if that's all you're intending to do. Now, if you're trying for large-scale production to supply a market, not just your needs, then of course you're going to need more and bigger. Scale changes everything, but not everything has to be on the same scale for the same goal.
My goal isn't to stand on the mountaintop proclaiming my self-sufficiency, and I doubt it is for FB or Cyper or any of the other folks who are modern homesteader-types. Our goals is make sure that can take care of our selves and families as best we can without a lot of outside dependencies because we enjoy it and get peace of mind having more influence over our life and food than most modern folks do. A lot of us simply do not feel comfortable relying heavily on other people for our own necessities. I, for one, am particularly interested in being able to grow feed grains and forage/hay in my forest (without clear-cutting my trees) because I certainly wouldn't want to be unable to feed my livestock should I be snowed in so badly one winter that I couldn't get out to purchase feed... if nothing else, my small-scale stock would be an excellent back-up for anything that I could purchase. Back ups are goooooood!
^ Last time I checked, this IS the self-sufficiency forum, does that explain why someone would wish to grow their own grain to feed their own chickens?
That being said, we are looking at growing our own, not sure we can or will, but DH and I have been discussing and researching the subject.
Doubt if oats would do good in Florida.
Oats grows best in a cool summer and that is why oats is readily grown in the Scandanavian countries.
^ Last time I checked, this IS the self-sufficiency forum, does that explain why someone would wish to grow their own grain to feed their own chickens?
That being said, we are looking at growing our own, not sure we can or will, but DH and I have been discussing and researching the subject.
I never did figure out whether people here are talking about "survival" chickens - or "boutique" chickens. But check out this recipe for "chicken food" (looks like they'd sell it at Whole Foods for $10/pound ):
Knowing a bit about gardening - but not farming - and having read what you've written - I suspect it would be most cost-time/effective for you to buy things to mix up for chicken feed at a feed lot type place (assuming you're not as picky as the writer of the above article) instead of growing your own. Especially since you're interested in other things - like learning how to make cheese. There are only so many hours in the day (unless it's summer in Alaska and light at 1 am - in which case you'll have all the time in the world ).
And to MissingAll4Seasons - don't shoot me for being a little OT - but I thought that list of Minnesota noxious weeds was hilarious and that you were right in terms of thinking about "what makes a weed". You'd have to nuke the whole state of Florida to get rid of all of them! Guys who spray chemicals on lawns here write us notes every couple of months stating that it is 100% impossible to eradicate many of these weeds - even if we're willing to have great-grandchildren with 14 fingers . And to put milkweed on that list??? Don't kids in Minnesota participate in Monarch butterfly projects (for those of you who do real stuff outside - not butterfly gardens like I do - milkweed is pretty much the only thing Monarchs live on - if you've never seen a Monarch butterly - plant one milkweed and next day the Monarchs will sight it from way up in the sky and be spending the rest of the season with you).
Also - you were 100% correct about your definition of a swamp. I live on a swamp - except here it's called a marsh. Difference is that "Swamp Landing" makes your property worth less - "Marsh Landing" makes it worth more .
And why don't you have earthworms where you live? I thought earthworms were everywhere (we have tons here - I always feel guilty when I'm doing gardening chores and hack one in half by accident with a sharp shovel or similar tool).
And to get back to chickens. With our native birds - they're always eating all kinds of plant seeds in the yard (native or non-native). Can chickens live at least partially on the seeds of plants/bushes/trees? Or do they need cultured grains to do ok (and I guess ok by our standards means producing eggs and putting on some flesh for the pot - we have game birds like doves in our yard - but I think I'd have to be in extremis to kill one and eat one - too scrawny)? Robyn
I don't have a tractor. I have an ATV and truck, and may eventually get a small tractor if I need it. There are a few ag attachments that work on my ATV and/or truck if I end up needing them. I'd like to stay away from needing a tractor if possible because it would require me to cut wider roads/trails in my forest and I'm trying to avoid that. Preserving my woodland is also one of the reasons that I'm looking at forest-friendly grains and forages that may end up requiring hand harvesting with a scythe because I can't get the tractor (or ATV or truck) back into the trees even though there may be a perfect opening or thinning back a little bit that I could grow a bushel on. Just a matter of priorities - one of mine is attempting to permaculture working with what's naturally here, not mono-culture with "exotic" species which might require me to do things a little more low-tech in some ways.
Another big problem with tractors in these parts is that they are in no way as cheap or available as you might be able to find them down there... we simply don't have miles and miles of rusting old farm equipment laying around because farmers have either gone out of business or have upgraded to larger/newer equipment. If it's up here at all, it's either in use or totally not salvageable.
Work is only "unnecessary" if you 1) don't enjoy the work; 2) you don't have a conflicting priority; or 3) you have a choice. I'm sure there are a gajillion things I'm doing in ways that you would consider unnecessary work... oh well, good thing I'm not asking you to do them then, since I certainly don't find them unnecessary, cost-ineffective or tedious
Doubt if oats would do good in Florida.
Oats grows best in a cool summer and that is why oats is readily grown in the Scandanavian countries.
Oats are a no-go, although University of Florida is doing research on a warm weather variety.
Corn does well here, and certain types of wheat, now to keep the deer out of those........and of course, the ubiquitous field peas.
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Now, for a profit farmer, you'd want everything perfect and that makes grains a major PITA... but a homesteader or backyarder who just wants enough to feed the family and a few critters, you can happily accept less than perfect yields and deal with cultivation and harvesting that's a little more (manual) labor intensive than a nice big flat field that you can drive a monstrous tractor and combine through! Hand weeding, or just letting the weeds grow, also not as much of an issue because 'purity' is not necessarily that important when you're not selling it. Your pigs and chickens won't care if there is a weed or two in the sorghum, and you can always pick out any weeds from your portion while you're threshing and winnowing. From a perspective of attempting to be as self-sufficient as possible, the extra labor involved in small-scale grain production and processing isn't necessarily cost-ineffective... not if it means you can feed yourself and your animals "free" for a chunk of your time rather than a huge feed bill (or as huge a one) at the granary/mill.
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