How come there is no NBA in St Louis? (St. Louis: rent, live)

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by skipcromer

As of 2006 Denvers Metro Population was just under 2.5 Million

As of 2007, St. Louis Metro Population was just over 2.7 Million.

I dont think Denver has gained 500,000 people in the last 2 and a half years, particularly when you consider the slow down in building over the past year.

Denver-Aurora-Boulder has a 2006 population estimate of just under 3 million. And Boulder is a lot closer to Denver (25 miles) than some of the places included in other geographies, like say Chicago. But thanks anyway.

It would also be dismissive to not account for the major population growth and trends moving forward. It would also be dismissive to discount the greater amounts of Regional competition St. Louis has for sports fans than Denver has in its Region.

[philfish]

There are a few dedicated people that want St. Louis to get an NBA team and we have now started a blog to try and get some attention to fill the void that needs to be filled. Bring the NBA to St. Louis and our facebook group Bring the NBA to St. Louis | Facebook. Come and show your support!

[footballer0607]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

So, in short, why bother with actual facts? Should I make a post or start a thread that says Bay Area people don't like eating pizza on Wednesdays. I know this because over a couple of year period, in the many years I've spent in the Bay Area, I never physically saw anyone eating any pizza on Wednesdays, so therefore I conclude that nobody eats pizza on Wednesdays in the Bay Area. Then when the facts show otherwise, I'll just try to change the subject, run around in circles, and eventually when I am asked to deal with the actual topic at hand, I'll just say that I could clearly go on and on, but I won't. And I'll then say I have better things to post on here even though I just did many times.

As I told you, on this particular topic, you should have picked someone else, someplace else to state your factless based opinion.

Just because one team in another sport has a large following during the couple of year window that intersected with your time in that city, doesn't mean other teams in other sports, and other sports in general do not have followings.

"I just returned home after going to school in the St. Louis area for a couple years. Honestly, not very many of the locals seemed interested in basketball at all." You were given countless examples of objective facts and statistics that showed otherwise. And your response each time was to change the subject. I mistakenly thought you were capable of multi-tasking on multiple topics. My mistake. But so far you haven't really stated anything of any substance to support your opinion. And, you really haven't addressed the overwhelming contradictory evidence.

You have proceeded to come here, say something negative about St. Louis and its basketball fans, not supported by fact, and then something negative about a local University that you attended, that I didn't even bother to address, except to humorously point out they are the defending D-III men's basketball Champions.(someone at Wash U cared about basketball.)

What a joker. Even if it was negative (which it wasn't) I can say whatever I want. Like he has a whole bunch of facts...please. Mostly everything he said is pure speculation.

[skipcromer]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

Denver-Aurora-Boulder has a 2006 population estimate of just under 3 million. And Boulder is a lot closer to Denver (25 miles) than some of the places included in other geographies, like say Chicago. But thanks anyway.

It would also be dismissive to not account for the major population growth and trends moving forward. It would also be dismissive to discount the greater amounts of Regional competition St. Louis has for sports fans than Denver has in its Region.

Sorry this is so late, I never knew I got a response.

The Statistical Area you are referring to would include area's that are nearly a 2 hour drive from downtown Denver. Greeley is an hour and a half without traffic, and is in the statistical area you cited.

By that account, we should add everywhere between st louis and beyond springfield, il to the st louis population.

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by skipcromer

Sorry this is so late, I never knew I got a response.

The Statistical Area you are referring to would include area's that are nearly a 2 hour drive from downtown Denver. Greeley is an hour and a half without traffic, and is in the statistical area you cited.

By that account, we should add everywhere between st louis and beyond springfield, il to the st louis population.

Yes you are late and you are also wrong.

Let's just not count the Chicago suburbs of say Naperville, etc...if we aren't going to count Boulder....almost 300k people live there. ....And let's not count Waukegan or anywhere near it or Kenosha WI etc...in the many others. ....Greeley Colorado is only area of many you ommitted. And it's less than 50 miles from Denver.

Five states that border Colorado do not even have an NBA team....the competition for fans in that sport or others is far less.

Have you ever been to a Cardinal game in the summer in St. Louis? It's consistently packed with people from Arkansas, Kentucky, and many other areas.

And fyi...Springfield IL is double the mileage of Greeley to Denver. ...but nice try.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

I don't think NBA would have the sphere of influence that the Cardinals have.
1. St. Louis is a baseball city
2. The Cardinals have been in St. Louis for 120+ years.
3. The Cardinals, for a long time, were on KMOX, which reaches pretty far across the country.

[skipcromer]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

Yes you are late and you are also wrong.

Let's just not count the Chicago suburbs of say Naperville, etc...if we aren't going to count Boulder....almost 300k people live there. ....And let's not count Waukegan or anywhere near it or Kenosha WI etc...in the many others. ....Greeley Colorado is only area of many you ommitted. And it's less than 50 miles from Denver.

Five states that border Colorado do not even have an NBA team....the competition for fans in that sport or others is far less.

Have you ever been to a Cardinal game in the summer in St. Louis? It's consistently packed with people from Arkansas, Kentucky, and many other areas.

And fyi...Springfield IL is double the mileage of Greeley to Denver. ...but nice try.

Mileage does not equal drive time. I have driven to Denver from Greeley and if done during heavy congestion takes longer that the drive from Springfield to St Louis (90 miles with no traffic straight in on 55).

And your right, cardinal games do routinely have fans from Arkansas and Kentucky. However, most of the time these fans come on weekends and catch a full series, something that is not possible with basketball. People plan their vacations around Cardinal baseball, something I doubt people would do to catch a NBA game in St. Louis.

Fishtaco, im not trying to start some kind of a fight with you. Just stating a fact. If your going to compare metro populations you should only count those that are likely to come to games. I feel like somebody from greeley colorado is just as likely to attend a basketball game as somebody from springfield. Same drive time.

[arch_genesis]

Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989

I don't think NBA would have the sphere of influence that the Cardinals have.
1. St. Louis is a baseball city
2. The Cardinals have been in St. Louis for 120+ years.
3. The Cardinals, for a long time, were on KMOX, which reaches pretty far across the country.

St. Louis might be a baseball city but it isn't a one sports city. Aren't you on urbanstl.com promoting MLS in St. Louis? I would think this argument would hold true at deterring the MLS just the same as you're trying to deter the NBA.

St. Louis has a rich history in the NBA and after the Cardinals (whom I love) the Hawks are the most successful sports franchise this city has seen! I don't get why people continue to ignore this. Clearly its a generation gap but its pretty sad people have let it go to the wayside. Joel Meyers (of the lakers) certainly remembers

I was spoiled at an early age watching NBA greats long before I knew they were to be future Hall of Famers. Growing up in St. Louis, one of the great baseball cities, you were born a Redbird. And I did love my Cardinals. But the old St. Louis Hawks, as Sinatra would say, got under my skin. We all wanted to be the next Bob Pettit. Cliff Hagan's hook shot from that far out was hard to believe. Lenny Wilkens had the drag shot going under the big guys way before his time. [...] The Hawks had me and so did the NBA. To say I was heartbroken when the Hawks moved to Atlanta would be a massive understatement.

Sphere of influence is something that takes time, lots of time, so that really is an unfair argument to make. Clearly the weakest as well. And "st. louis is a baseball city" just sounds so...xenophobic for lack of a better word but I think it fits.

Baseball and Basketball are two different sports but two different cultures as well. I love both though, but "St. Louis is a baseball city" sounds like an unfriendly greeting. I'm personally tired of hearing it, I'd much rather here "St. Louis is a great baseball city"

[STLCardsBlues1989]

I was referring to this comment:

Have you ever been to a Cardinal game in the summer in St. Louis? It's consistently packed with people from Arkansas, Kentucky, and many other areas.

I'd like to see MLS here, and I think it can succeed. I don't think NBA or MLS would have the same kind of following the Cardinals do. I'm not sure the NBA could succeed here. They'd have to share an arena with the Blues and NBA tickets seem to be pretty expensive.

Youth soccer seems to have a pretty big following in St. Louis. I'll admit, I don't know much about youth basketball in the area. I just don't think NBA could survive in St. Louis. Dave Checketts said so himself a while back.

[arch_genesis]

from the st. louis commerce magazine dated may 28, 2008

[SIZE=2]Don’t laugh. St. Louis could get NBA basketball. As McCarthy points out: “Dave has such strong connections to the commissioner (David Stern) and the league in general that getting a pro basketball franchise here is always a possibility.” Scottrade Center clearly needs more tenants with the Saint Louis University Billikens moving to an on-campus arena in 2008.
[/SIZE]

Also in 2008, NBA tickets averaged 49.47 in 2008, and NHL tickets averaged 48.72. Its just as expensive as hockey. You'd be better arguing that the metro is a bit too leveraged to add another sports franchise.

Also, why are you continuing to set the bar at the cardinals? As you said they've been here for 120 years. You can't possibly expect any new franchise to develop a following comparable to the cardinals in 2 years. What kind of argument is that?

You also, obviously didn't bother to find out what kind of youth following basketball has in st. louis. Yet you'll espouse that soccer has a huge youth following without providing any facts or numbers. Nothing. Fair enough. I'll just say that youth basketball has a large following in st. louis. Also, when did youth have disposable income?

About Scottrade, the lakers share staples center with the los angeles clippers and the los angeles kings hockey team. I really don't why you brought having to share an arena w/ the blues? Scheduling conflicts? Staples center proves it can be worked out. Before a year or two ago the billikens shared scottrade with the blues.