How come there is no NBA in St Louis? (St. Louis: sale, transfer)
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from the st. louis commerce magazine dated may 28, 2008
Also in 2008, NBA tickets averaged 49.47 in 2008, and NHL tickets averaged 48.72. Its just as expensive as hockey. You'd be better arguing that the metro is a bit too leveraged to add another sports franchise.
This year, the average NHL ticket price is $49.66, but the average Blues ticket price is $29.94 - the lowest in the league.
Any NBA team moving to St. Louis is going to have to:
1. Pay rent to Mr. Checketts.
2. Get second choice of home dates.
3. Compete with the Blues and their 40+ year history and the Rams.
The upside would be the ability to sell corporate seats to both the NHL and the NBA in a package deal to area companies.
Quote:
About Scottrade, the lakers share staples center with the los angeles clippers and the los angeles kings hockey team. I really don't why you brought having to share an arena w/ the blues? Scheduling conflicts? Staples center proves it can be worked out. Before a year or two ago the billikens shared scottrade with the blues.
The Billikens complained about having second choice of home games.
Last edited by loki03xlh; 03-13-2009 at 12:39 PM..
Reason: adding info
Mileage does not equal drive time. I have driven to Denver from Greeley and if done during heavy congestion takes longer that the drive from Springfield to St Louis (90 miles with no traffic straight in on 55).
And your right, cardinal games do routinely have fans from Arkansas and Kentucky. However, most of the time these fans come on weekends and catch a full series, something that is not possible with basketball. People plan their vacations around Cardinal baseball, something I doubt people would do to catch a NBA game in St. Louis.
Fishtaco, im not trying to start some kind of a fight with you. Just stating a fact. If your going to compare metro populations you should only count those that are likely to come to games. I feel like somebody from greeley colorado is just as likely to attend a basketball game as somebody from springfield. Same drive time.
Really? Are you really serious? You do realize you are talking to someone that his lived in Chicago for example, for several years and I can assure you that while say Naperville is considered a Chicago burb, I can assure you it takes anywhere from 1-2.5 hrs one way to get there from the Chicago Loop or North side near Wrigley in rush hour. We can use the example of many other cities too, but I thought you'd relate better to the Chicago example.
You are aware that Deerfield IL is where the Berto Center is located? (Chicago Bulls practice facility) And you are aware that Phil Jackson routinely still tells stories of being near there and coming close to not making home games on time due to traffic. The United Center being on the cities West Side....Hinrich lives in Northbrook, and he has the same problem, Jordan lived in Highland Park and had the same problem. Chris Duhon lived in River North and routinely talked about how difficult it was to get to practice the opposite direction.
All of these places are considered part of metro Chicago. Denver's traffic is nowhere in the same stratosphere as Chicago, as I've experienced as well...not even in the same discussion, nor close. I hate to break it to you but all those West of 294 burbs are part of Chicagoland. All of those Northern burbs bordering WI are part of Chicagoland. Northwest Indiana is part of metro Chicago.
You don't think people in other parts of MO and IL wouldn't attend NBA games in St. Louis if there was a team?...on a regular basis....? There are some hoops fans in other parts of MO and IL that would on a regular basis. These people can't come for an overnight or weekend, but the baseball people can do so? There isn't logic to that thought. You need to take a trip to a few hoops crazy towns in MO and IL.
As I said you can take places within 30 miles of the United Center in Chicago and it can take 2.5 hrs to get to the United Center for games, and those places count as part of Chicago's metro, as do a lot of other places much farther out. All of these game commutes are farther in time than Greeley to Denver and they are often times much closer in mileage too.
You don't think NBA fans attend Nuggets games in Denver from neighboring states from time to time because it is the closest NBA team for them in several states? Of course they do.
Denver also as a metro, as I said, not only is larger than St. Louis metro, it is expanding in hugely different numbers than St. Louis. And, that also should not be discounted either, as I pointed out earlier.
I also believe you should change your moniker name from Skip Cromer to Tripp Cromer to honor former St. Louis Cardinal baseball infielder Tripp Cromer.
I was referring to this comment:
I'd like to see MLS here, and I think it can succeed. I don't think NBA or MLS would have the same kind of following the Cardinals do. I'm not sure the NBA could succeed here. They'd have to share an arena with the Blues and NBA tickets seem to be pretty expensive.
Youth soccer seems to have a pretty big following in St. Louis. I'll admit, I don't know much about youth basketball in the area. I just don't think NBA could survive in St. Louis. Dave Checketts said so himself a while back.
Apples to oranges. The NBA pricing is hugely different than MLS. The NBA also plays waaaay more home games than MLS.
Soccer would do fine in St. Louis. It would be well run and well attended as long as it was well run. The NBA and hockey would compete for the dollar and attention and one would suffer because of that. 4 is possible, sure, of the major sports, but very unlikely to be doable and manageable...too much costs all the way around. Soccer is a different animal altogether. It's much more feasible than having the 4 major sports teams in St. Louis.
I don't think NBA would have the sphere of influence that the Cardinals have.
1. St. Louis is a baseball city
2. The Cardinals have been in St. Louis for 120+ years.
3. The Cardinals, for a long time, were on KMOX, which reaches pretty far across the country.
I never suggested it would. However, you are trying to fill a much smaller venue, NBA, 20k max, with half the home dates of baseball.
Any NBA team moving to St. Louis is going to have to:
1. Pay rent to Mr. Checketts.
2. Get second choice of home dates.
3. Compete with the Blues and their 40+ year history and the Rams.
The upside would be the ability to sell corporate seats to both the NHL and the NBA in a package deal to area companies.
The Billikens complained about having second choice of home games.
Just two years ago the blues ranked dead last in attendance.(2006-2007). The season before that they ranked 27th out of 30 teams. Did they have the lowest ticket price in the league then too?
Low ticket prices are nothing new for St. Louis teams, Chip Rosenbloom and Bill DeWitt have hung their hats on low ticket prices and in this recession its nothing unique.
The Blues have a history of coming up short, 41 years and still no Stanley cup. Also the blues demographics are pretty homogenous, but you certainly make the correct arguments (unlike stlcardblues, I'm sorry its true).
An nba team would have to compete with the blues. I'm not sure
what kind of tv deal the blues or the nhl have anymore. It seems they're gate driven in revenue. I think an nba team and a good tv deal would be more appetizing to advertisers. Does CW 11 still show blues games?
Checketts is a great owner he's revitalized the blues fanbase they're ranked 12th in the league in attendance. Despite the lowest ticket prices that's still nothing to slight at. I don't follow the blues though so I couldn't tell you how horrible they might have been a few years ago.
Yet, I still don't think you can ignore what McCarthy says. He's Checketts' business partner after all. Checketts got his start in the nba as well.
The biggest problem probably is renting a stadium, but with a guy like Checketts I think something would be worked out.
Just two years ago the blues ranked dead last in attendance.(2006-2007). The season before that they ranked 27th out of 30 teams. Did they have the lowest ticket price in the league then too?
Low ticket prices are nothing new for St. Louis teams, Chip Rosenbloom and Bill DeWitt have hung their hats on low ticket prices and in this recession its nothing unique.
The Blues have a history of coming up short, 41 years and still no Stanley cup. Also the blues demographics are pretty homogenous, but you certainly make the correct arguments (unlike stlcardblues, I'm sorry its true).
An nba team would have to compete with the blues. I'm not sure
what kind of tv deal the blues or the nhl have anymore. It seems they're gate driven in revenue. I think an nba team and a good tv deal would be more appetizing to advertisers. Does CW 11 still show blues games?
Checketts is a great owner he's revitalized the blues fanbase they're ranked 12th in the league in attendance. Despite the lowest ticket prices that's still nothing to slight at. I don't follow the blues though so I couldn't tell you how horrible they might have been a few years ago.
Yet, I still don't think you can ignore what McCarthy says. He's Checketts' business partner after all. Checketts got his start in the nba as well.
The biggest problem probably is renting a stadium, but with a guy like Checketts I think something would be worked out.
The Blues also have a recent history of 25 straight seasons making the playoffs, something no other team in the league can claim.
The Blues biggest challenge is money, as in not deep pocketed owners, so the Blues will be a youth movement team for the near term and when the elite of those players seek more money, they won't all be re-signed. If Checketts can add a wealthy investor, the Blues can have a more balanced approached in successful on ice strategy. From a PR standpoint, the Blues are light years ahead of the other local pro sports teams. They definitely understand marketing and pr and have had good people in those areas in different eras.
St. Louis isn't a growth population market, and it historically is not a free spending consumer market. A very relevant viewpoint is that St. Louis doesn't have the consumer spending dollars to go around, even in a better economy, let alone this one, to support 4 major sports teams, not including soccer. St. Louis won't have a problem supporting soccer financially. It doesn't need the same level of resources and capital to be successful.
Doable to add an NBA team, but not likely any time soon. Checketts would also be a guy who would be front and center since his prior work was running Madison Square Garden and his experience with the Knicks. He's a hoops guy.
Blues ticket prices will go up next year about 10%, but the Blues also have, for the past 3 years, had tremendous ticket deals, some tickets being half off, or buy-one-get-one-free, free food deals. The Blues have some of the cheapest tickets in the league. And they have a strong following it seems, not like the Cardinals, but they've got a good fanbase nonetheless. Even the Rams had decent attendance last year considering they were like 3-13. An NBA just doesn't seem plausible to me, especially in this economy. Maybe in 10 years if we grow a lot. Now? No.
Blues ticket prices will go up next year about 10%, but the Blues also have, for the past 3 years, had tremendous ticket deals, some tickets being half off, or buy-one-get-one-free, free food deals. The Blues have some of the cheapest tickets in the league. And they have a strong following it seems, not like the Cardinals, but they've got a good fanbase nonetheless. Even the Rams had decent attendance last year considering they were like 3-13. An NBA just doesn't seem plausible to me, especially in this economy. Maybe in 10 years if we grow a lot. Now? No.
The long time, hard core element of Blues fans, are the most loyal and passionate in the St. Louis area of any sport.
Blues ticket prices will go up next year about 10%, but the Blues also have, for the past 3 years, had tremendous ticket deals, some tickets being half off, or buy-one-get-one-free, free food deals. The Blues have some of the cheapest tickets in the league. And they have a strong following it seems, not like the Cardinals, but they've got a good fanbase nonetheless. Even the Rams had decent attendance last year considering they were like 3-13. An NBA just doesn't seem plausible to me, especially in this economy. Maybe in 10 years if we grow a lot. Now? No.
I'm not pushing for an nba team right now, never was, I even suggested your argument for you.
Also, Fish Tacos you should probably correct your sentence. 25 consecutive playoff appearances without a conference championship nor a stanley cup ..no other team in the league would want to claim that.
Alas I'll agree with you, like I said, and I'm sure its been said before Greater St. Louis is too financially leveraged to support an NBA team at the moment. My problem is with people who are put off, all together, at the idea of having a team at all one day. The "St. Louis is a baseball city" crowd.
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