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Old 07-25-2013, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
296 posts, read 658,845 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucFan View Post
Jack up the sales tax and real estate tax to build a billion dollar light rail that will remain empty and unused.....this is not NYC, Boston, folks. People here enjoy driving to their destinations.
Light rail is successful in places like Seattle, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc. You don't have to be Boston or NYC.

Our metro area is very spread out, if anything we need this way more.

Quote:
People here enjoy driving to their destinations.
Totally, that's why everyone loves driving across our scenic bridges to Rays games, can't find a ticket into that place. And no one ever complains about Veterans Traffic, malfunction junction, or US19, everyone enjoys those commutes. Oh and all of those Hillsborough residence that never go to Clearwater Beach because the drive is too far and the traffic sucks.. they wouldn't enjoy a cheap train ride straight there at all. It wouldn't help Pinellas and Clearwater economies to get their neighbors over there either.

Not to mention other factors like how light rail is better for the environment, will lowers fatalities and DUIs, and give people the freedom to travel the entire Tampa Bay area not just their small pocket they live in on a daily basis.

I understand people's arguments against it, but the pluses just far outweigh the negatives.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:07 AM
 
Location: says MA on my license but can be found wandering the beaches of RI
1,432 posts, read 1,824,862 times
Reputation: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsun556 View Post
Exactly. All it takes is one block before the ladies in their heels are complaining. LOL. I'd rather deal with the traffic and parking then the complaining.
Nice flip flops go well with dresses/slacks too!
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Terra
2,826 posts, read 3,994,360 times
Reputation: 3374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshinecc View Post
Nice flip flops go well with dresses/slacks too!
Not many women around here wear flops unless they are tall or it's daytime. Once night falls the heels go on for them. (all depends on the destination though).
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:10 AM
 
Location: says MA on my license but can be found wandering the beaches of RI
1,432 posts, read 1,824,862 times
Reputation: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsun556 View Post
Not many women around here wear flops unless they are tall or it's daytime. Once night falls the heels go on for them. (all depends on the destination though).
Well, I certainly don't want to sound like a bum, lol. I may be a sports nut but I love my shoes and have found that there are plenty of dressy flip flops and dress sandals w/shorter heels. I get enough injuries playing sports, don't need a twisted ankle from a 3" stilletto, that's for sure.

Maybe I'll start a new trend?
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Terra
2,826 posts, read 3,994,360 times
Reputation: 3374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshinecc View Post
Well, I certainly don't want to sound like a bum, lol. I may be a sports nut but I love my shoes and have found that there are plenty of dressy flip flops and dress sandals w/shorter heels. I get enough injuries playing sports, don't need a twisted ankle from a 3" stilletto, that's for sure.

Maybe I'll start a new trend?
No worries, you'll be good to go. There are plenty of casual bars in the area.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:01 AM
 
3,826 posts, read 5,811,713 times
Reputation: 2401
NOOOO... PLEASE!!!! Not public transit arguments AGAIN!!!
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Terra
2,826 posts, read 3,994,360 times
Reputation: 3374
Quote:
Originally Posted by EngGirl View Post
NOOOO... PLEASE!!!! Not public transit arguments AGAIN!!!
Didn't you know? The more threads about public transit, the higher chance of it being successful.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:09 AM
 
1,106 posts, read 2,284,997 times
Reputation: 962
Quote:
Originally Posted by romes591 View Post
Light rail is successful in places like Seattle, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc. You don't have to be Boston or NYC.

Our metro area is very spread out, if anything we need this way more.

Totally, that's why everyone loves driving across our scenic bridges to Rays games, can't find a ticket into that place. And no one ever complains about Veterans Traffic, malfunction junction, or US19, everyone enjoys those commutes. Oh and all of those Hillsborough residence that never go to Clearwater Beach because the drive is too far and the traffic sucks.. they wouldn't enjoy a cheap train ride straight there at all. It wouldn't help Pinellas and Clearwater economies to get their neighbors over there either.

Not to mention other factors like how light rail is better for the environment, will lowers fatalities and DUIs, and give people the freedom to travel the entire Tampa Bay area not just their small pocket they live in on a daily basis.

I understand people's arguments against it, but the pluses just far outweigh the negatives.
Wow -

You just listed a number of negatives about mass transit and managed to spin them as "positive".

1. You are claiming that making mass transit to the Trop is quicker than driving. I've never heard that argument before. Getting in and out of the Trop quickly has to be the 1st or 2nd easiest experience of the 30 baseball stadiums in the MLB.

2. "Cheap train ride"? This goes to show that you know nothing about other light rail systems that have been put in place. The fully-loaded cost of a ride is mostly paid by taxpayers, not riders. How would it help the Pinellas and Clearwater economies when you have to drastically increase sales and property taxes? Spending $3 billion or so (a typical starting price tag for some of the systems you listed), plus ongoing annual losses in perpetuity is definitely not "cheap". Go look at the financials for the Tampa Trolley and get back to us about how "cheap" it is.

3. Lowers DUIs? How exactly would this work? You stagger 2 miles to the light rail station, and A. find out it's closed for the night, or B. take it to your nearest stop and stagger the 5 miles home from there, or C. drive your car home that you left at the park-n-ride. Genius!

4. The ONLY potential path, one that runs to the airport, will single-handedly decimate the already poor taxi service in the Tampa Bay area. I'd rather have somewhat-poor taxi service than none at all. Why not just run a bunch of free express shuttles? I'd bet it's cheaper than $3 billion, even after all the lawsuits from the taxi companies.

5. A system to connect all of the places you listed would cost in the tens of billions and would probably be ridden by a few thousand people per day. Try the math and see if it works.

I think you may be confusing the 2,000 square mile area of Hillsbourough + Tampa Bay + Pinellas with the 200 square mile area of Chicago. And even with a half billion riders per year, Chicago cannot even make their system work, as they are forced to annually raise rates and cut service.

We saw these same arguments more than a decade ago to justify the money-hemorrhaging Tampa Trolley. They turned out to be flat-out lies (convenience, speed, cost, etc). Let's not fall for it again on a scale that is 100x the size.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:26 AM
 
6,617 posts, read 5,014,844 times
Reputation: 3689
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_tino View Post
Wow -

You just listed a number of negatives about mass transit and managed to spin them as "positive".

1. You are claiming that making mass transit to the Trop is quicker than driving. I've never heard that argument before. Getting in and out of the Trop quickly has to be the 1st or 2nd easiest experience of the 30 baseball stadiums in the MLB.

2. "Cheap train ride"? This goes to show that you know nothing about other light rail systems that have been put in place. The fully-loaded cost of a ride is mostly paid by taxpayers, not riders. How would it help the Pinellas and Clearwater economies when you have to drastically increase sales and property taxes? Spending $3 billion or so (a typical starting price tag for some of the systems you listed), plus ongoing annual losses in perpetuity is definitely not "cheap". Go look at the financials for the Tampa Trolley and get back to us about how "cheap" it is.

3. Lowers DUIs? How exactly would this work? You stagger 2 miles to the light rail station, and A. find out it's closed for the night, or B. take it to your nearest stop and stagger the 5 miles home from there, or C. drive your car home that you left at the park-n-ride. Genius!

4. The ONLY potential path, one that runs to the airport, will single-handedly decimate the already poor taxi service in the Tampa Bay area. I'd rather have somewhat-poor taxi service than none at all. Why not just run a bunch of free express shuttles? I'd bet it's cheaper than $3 billion, even after all the lawsuits from the taxi companies.

5. A system to connect all of the places you listed would cost in the tens of billions and would probably be ridden by a few thousand people per day. Try the math and see if it works.

I think you may be confusing the 2,000 square mile area of Hillsbourough + Tampa Bay + Pinellas with the 200 square mile area of Chicago. And even with a half billion riders per year, Chicago cannot even make their system work, as they are forced to annually raise rates and cut service.

We saw these same arguments more than a decade ago to justify the money-hemorrhaging Tampa Trolley. They turned out to be flat-out lies (convenience, speed, cost, etc). Let's not fall for it again on a scale that is 100x the size.
I dont disagree wiht most of your arguments however you would be better served, much like the OP if you left the Trolley out of the argument. Its was never indented to be a mass transit system and its not indicative of what would happen, all your other examples might be, but not the trolley. On a side note, if the Chicago train systems would stop running the city would implode much like NYC when they have mass transit strikes, so as maligned as those systems are its a lot better than nothing.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Terra
2,826 posts, read 3,994,360 times
Reputation: 3374
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_tino View Post
3. Lowers DUIs? How exactly would this work? You stagger 2 miles to the light rail station, and A. find out it's closed for the night, or B. take it to your nearest stop and stagger the 5 miles home from there, or C. drive your car home that you left at the park-n-ride. Genius!
You know the police would stalk the park-n-rides also, just waiting for someone to stagger off the train into their car for a 1 mile ride home.
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