Tennessee's obsession with checking IDs/ Underage Drinking (buy, college)

[danielj72]

You can check every ID but it will not stop underage drinking. Most people in this forum broke those laws when 18, 19 yr old, most of our parents broke those laws, and most of our grandparents broke those laws. It seems very few people did not break them if you really talk to people about it. The state, (most states) now attempt to enforce the drinking age by using draconian punishments. Does it work??? well yea many many young people now have a criminal record for doing what we did when we were young. We just did not get punished like they do. The officer just asked us to pour it out and at worst called our dads. The severity of the punishment has not stopped these kids from doing it, but in the future it may stop them from getting a job with the criminal record. I think its overzealously enforced, and I also question why we have the law if no one obeys it anyway. Most of us agree that kids under 18 should not have access to it, but its not reasonable to expect 20 year olds to not drink. It is a waste of our law enforcement budget to chase 20 year olds with beer and harass bartenders for serving them. I would rather the effort go into getting the meth and pill popping under control. That is a real danger to our state.

[85rx-7gsl-se]

^So by your logic we shouldn't have speed limits, since most people speed anyway? BTW I never drank before the age of 21, as I intended to go to law school and wanted a clean record. Honestly I think the biggest issue with younger folks is this mentality that the goal of drinking is to get drunk. Not just a bit to relax. My understanding after talking to folks who have spent time in countries with lower drinking ages is that sloppy drunkiness in publlic is generally not tolerated. Sure you can have a beer, but you won't be getting trashed.

[danielj72]

Originally Posted by 85rx-7gsl-se

^So by your logic we shouldn't have speed limits, since most people speed anyway? BTW I never drank before the age of 21, as I intended to go to law school and wanted a clean record. Honestly I think the biggest issue with younger folks is this mentality that the goal of drinking is to get drunk. Not just a bit to relax. My understanding after talking to folks who have spent time in countries with lower drinking ages is that sloppy drunkiness in publlic is generally not tolerated. Sure you can have a beer, but you won't be getting trashed.

Laws need to have the support of the general public or they will not work. Speed limits have been adjusted over the years to be more in line with what people will tolerate. Absolutely no one other than 85 year old grandmothers followed the 55 limits of the 70s and 80s. Many people follow our modern reasonable 70 mph speed limits. Drinking age laws are not followed because most people don't take them seriously and never have. Getting folks to obey them would mean changing peoples attitudes toward drinking which is not going to happen. Prohibition was a massive effort to end drinking in America and it caused a mass rebellion against the law. Drinking ages came about after prohibition and have never been obeyed. Most people believe high school age children should not drink, that is easier to enforce. Preventing 20 year olds from drinking on the other hand is impossible, and its easy to paint the law as unfair when that 20 year old is an adult in every other way but the ability to buy a beer. Telling someone who fights in our wars that they cannot drink yet cause "they are not grown up" is insulting to them and they have no problem breaking that law. You can ruin their future lives with a criminal record in an attempt to force them to obey, but since the penalties got that strict there has been no decrease in underage drinking. Nothing will change the fact that 20 year olds drink alcohol.
I agree with you about the attitude of young people drinking to get drunk. The reason those nations with lax drinking laws have less problems is the fact that it is not a forbidden fruit, but a normal part of life even for children. In Europe a child may have a glass of wine at dinner like everyone else, or a beer at 14. To them its not a big deal. I think our prohibition era and restrictive laws regaurding alcohol may have created the monster.

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Sadly all zero-tolerance laws drawn around an invisible magical dividing line grouping people into permitted and excluded will result in inequities and resistance. I get where your coming from and find myself to be in greater support of a relaxation on who can drink, but a strengthening of punishment for those who do stupid stuff while drinking regardless of age.

[danielj72]

Originally Posted by 85rx-7gsl-se

Sadly all zero-tolerance laws drawn around an invisible magical dividing line grouping people into permitted and excluded will result in inequities and resistance. I get where your coming from and find myself to be in greater support of a relaxation on who can drink, but a strengthening of punishment for those who do stupid stuff while drinking regardless of age.

This is the logic that should be behind our drinking laws, this does make sense. I think the law as it is cannot succeed, twenty year old drinking is unstoppable. Punishing those who drink to much and cause problems seems to make more sense to me.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by danielj72

This is the logic that should be behind our drinking laws, this does make sense. I think the law as it is cannot succeed, twenty year old drinking is unstoppable. Punishing those who drink to much and cause problems seems to make more sense to me.

Twenty year olds drinking is stoppable if we quit saying it is OK and normal. It isn't it is stupid as a 20 year old is not yet experienced enough in life or mature enough to actually evaluate or deal with the issue. Parents and society have excused it rather than dealing with it.

Those of us who grew up with decent parents who not simply made sure we understood the issue, but saw the wisdom in waiting,but helped us see what was happening to those who had poor parenting, have avoided massive problems.

There is NO need for them to drink, there are a vast number of excellent reasons for them not to.

By the way lowering the drinking age to 18 because you can go to war and kill is a really stupid argument. First, the military wants the young because they can still be easily molded due to ... lack of experience and maturity, just what you don't want in a person drinking. Next, they are TAUGHT what to do and how to so it. That is vastly different than letting a young person drink what he wants, when he (or she) wants, with NO direction or training.

Now that said, I agree stiff laws, like they have in Europe, good old Liberal Socialist Europe would work. You drink and drive there and life is not good and in some Countries you lose the right to drive for life. ZERO blood alcohol.

Would you drink if such behavior brought oh a $50,000 dollar fine that bankruptcy would not discharge and a year in jail for a first offense and no license for 5 years after you are let out.Next offense within those 5 years and it is life in prison. Now that would stop drinking and driving for anyone at any age, except the ones so stupid we don't want them driving at all or mixing with society.

Maybe if we quit making excuses for stupid behavior no checking of licenses would be necessary.

[andrea3821]

Originally Posted by J&Em

I think you may want to try buying something as simple as beer in grocery stores in other states and then come back and tell us all how no one else does it but the overzealous Tennessee folks.

Yeah. In Wisconsin, a supervisor has to come scan your beer/wine in the grocery store, the cashiers themselves aren't allowed to do it. And they don't sell except in a bar after 9pm. Which seems like it would encourage drunk driving, but hey, what do I know. In FL, a lot of counties do not sell liquor on Sundays, but you can still get drinks at a restaurant.

I don't think it's such a big deal to have to show ID at any age b/c you are supposed to carry ID for identification purposes anyway, at least here in FL that's the case. My BIL was walking in a neighborhood and the cops had gotten a call about suspicious activity by somebody else and the cops pulled over and asked him for ID (he didn't have a license yet) and they told him he was supposed to have it even if he wasn't driving. It's a good idea in case something happens to you, God forbid. But I think we should all assume we will be carded and just get that ID out when ordering a drink or buying it at the store, seems simple enough to me.

[JMT]

This thread has served its purpose, time to shut it down.

[TooMuchGovernment]

I have been doing some online research into Tennessee's new 'universal carding' law for liquor stores. Along with it's 2007 predecessor for beer in "c stores" I find it to be one of the dumbest laws ever enacted. I wish I could understand the true agenda behind these laws because it certainly has nothing to do with underage drinking.

I live in Chattanooga where the law for retail stores has translated into many ridiculous polices in bars and restaurants. Many, many servers believe there is a law requiring them to card everyone when serving alcohol. This is not true.

Sadly, many establishments in Chattanooga live in fear of the local liquor board. Granted, some have been careless and blatantly served underage people - ID or no ID (it happens). However, it is a shame to see businesses living in fear of the government.

Your thoughts?

Jim

Chattanooga, TN

[BirdieBelle]

Originally Posted by TooMuchGovernment

Granted, some have been careless and blatantly served underage people - ID or no ID (it happens).

My thoughts? Stop doing this.

Government granteth the beer permit, and government can take it away. If you want to make a profit and survive, follow the law.