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If they counted traffic and airplane accidents that are caused by cold weather the statistics would tell a different story.
"Winter storms are far deadlier than previously believed, according to a new study released by atmospheric scientists at the University of Georgia.
The study, performed by Alan Black and Thomas Mote, found that NOAA's data on winter storm fatalities were leaving out thousands of traffic-related deaths that occurred on roads made treacherous by the snow and ice. They found that NOAA had attributed 571 deaths to winter storms in the United States from 1996 to 2011, but when they added traffic- and plane crash-related deaths, that total rose to 13,852 deaths in the same time frame.
In other words, winter storms are almost 25 times more deadly than the numbers would lead you to believe, the study said.
Using NOAA's data, the 15-year period studied would have an average annual death toll of about 38. But that average death toll jumps to about 923 when the study's criteria are adjusted to include car and plane crashes that were indirectly attributed to a winter storm. According to fatality data kept by NOAA for every type of weather event, heat-related deaths currently have the highest 10-year average, with an average of 123 deaths occurring due to heat each year from 2004 to 2013. But the deadliest type of weather could change if NOAA decides to reclassify winter storm deaths based on the information found in the study."
Ok, so if we are going to count people not driving to winter road conditions as "The Cold Killing them" Are we also going to count that most murders take place in the summer and spike during heat waves on the warm weather side?
It's silly, and my point I was originally making was to address that the cold isn't the big boogie man that some people make it out to be.
It's fine to prefer hot weather. I personally hate the Texas summer weather, and while I know it can be deadly (like the cold can be) if you dress for the conditions and don't do anything dumb, you will be fine, just like the cold. I'm not hysterically worried about dying in the heat.
It's a matter of preference, no need to prove that it is "Better" and everyone actually loves it. I don't understand why people feel like they need to justify Houston weather. If you like it, congrats, you are a minority of Americans. Most people find it too warm and humid, but lots of them can and do tolerate it for the other benefits of Houston.
Typical strawman argument. You posted that " cold weather kills less people than hot weather does in the US every year. (though it is pretty close)" I just posted a link that may dispute that.
My point was into response a previous poster freaking out that Atlanta got snow one time and it was the end of the world. Dallas too, is susceptible to such disasters. It was a part of a broader set of arguments arguing that Dallas snow is more dangerous than Houston Hurricanes.
Thats why I linked your "Cold weather kills more people" argument back with associating it with Dallas, which is silly, because we so rarely get snow. Even if you want to run the numbers and count winter accidents it doesn't do much to change the Dallas stats since again, it snow so rarely here.
Ok, so if we are going to count people not driving to winter road conditions as "The Cold Killing them" Are we also going to count that most murders take place in the summer and spike during heat waves on the warm weather side?
It's silly, and my point I was originally making was to address that the cold isn't the big boogie man that some people make it out to be.
It's fine to prefer hot weather. I personally hate the Texas summer weather, and while I know it can be deadly (like the cold can be) if you dress for the conditions and don't do anything dumb, you will be fine, just like the cold. I'm not hysterically worried about dying in the heat.
It's a matter of preference, no need to prove that it is "Better" and everyone actually loves it. I don't understand why people feel like they need to justify Houston weather. If you like it, congrats, you are a minority of Americans. Most people find it too warm and humid, but lots of them can and do tolerate it for the other benefits of Houston.
I'll agree the cold , at least as it pertains to Dallas , is not as dangerous as a hurricane, however cold weather happens every year whereas Hurricanes do not.
The point the article was making is that over time cold winter storm conditions which happen every year, kill more people than summer storms which may or may not happen in any particular year.
The reason more people die directly of heat related conditions is twofold , one parents are negligent and leave young children in cars (which really angers me when I hear about this happening) and two exert themselves outside in the weather whereas of course if it were cold they would not be.
If people were as sedentary in warm weather as they are in cold weather there would be fewer deaths attributed directly to the heat than to the cold. The heat only kills more people because more people are active in it.
Do you have any statistics of weather related deaths in DFW as directly compared to Houston ? I would really like to see them if you do ….BTW lets include lightning strikes as well.
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Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92
My point was into response a previous poster freaking out that Atlanta got snow one time and it was the end of the world. Dallas too, is susceptible to such disasters. It was a part of a broader set of arguments arguing that Dallas snow is more dangerous than Houston Hurricanes.
Thats why I linked your "Cold weather kills more people" argument back with associating it with Dallas, which is silly, because we so rarely get snow. Even if you want to run the numbers and count winter accidents it doesn't do much to change the Dallas stats since again, it snow so rarely here.
I realize Dallas is not a frigid climate , just more frigid than Houston
Last edited by Jack Lance; 06-23-2019 at 11:52 PM..
A hurricane does alot more to slow down business than a snow or even ice storm.
Chicago doesn't shut down for months on end. I've had a grand total of one day where I was told I didn't need to go to work because of the weather in almost a decade in Dallas ( I still went anyway). My buddy who works in Houston had a full week off during the Harvey floods.
I mean sure ice storms can cause damage, and they do, but they don't come close to Hurricane or tropical storm damage, don't be silly.
An occasional ice storm might be a deal breaker for you and make a place "Less Desirable" but tons of high value places have snow and doesn't seem to stop them. I mean lol stop. Don't be that Houston Homer.
And I had a full week off of school due to the ice storm in Dallas in 2011 and most non-service related jobs shut down. All of DFW was shut down for longer than Houston was during Harvey. DFW shuts down on an annual basis for a couple of days here and there due to weather (mostly ice/snow). It was one of the things we looked forward to in school was hoping for those few days off. To try and make it seem like Houston is alone in this is being dishonest.
I'll agree the cold , at least as it pertains to Dallas , is not as dangerous as a hurricane, however cold weather happens every year whereas Hurricanes do not.
The point the article was making is that over time cold winter storm conditions which happen every year, kill more people than summer storms which may or may not happen in any particular year.
The reason more people die directly of heat related conditions is twofold , one parents are negligent and leave young children in cars (which really angers me when I hear about this happening) and two exert themselves outside in the weather whereas of course if it were cold they would not be.
If people were as sedentary in warm weather as they are in cold weather there would be fewer deaths attributed directly to the heat than to the cold. The heat only kills more people because more people are active in it.
Do you have any statistics of weather related deaths in DFW as directly compared to Houston ? I would really like to see them if you do ….BTW lets include lightning strikes as well.
I realize Dallas is not a frigid climate, just more frigid than Houston
The number of people killed by and the amount of property damage sustained by winter weather in Dallas is statistically negligible.
It doesn't even happen every year. We don't get snow or ice storms every year. It only gets below freezing a few times a year. That also happens in Houston.
Hurricanes do billions in damages.
Actually, people are more sedentary in warm weather places like Dallas or Houston than they are in Cold weather places like Chicago. Part of that is urban design, but the south is much more sedentary as a whole vs the north.
I've been to Milwaukee in February when its 0 degrees out and it is more foot traffic than Dallas was when it is 40 degrees. People are out and about at the bars and restaurants.
I can easily snowshoe 5 miles in 15-degree weather and feel comfortable as long as I dress for it. Walking 5 miles when it is 100 in Dallas no matter what you wear is dangerous.
The humid and hot South is by far the most Obease part of the US.
MN which is largely rural and cold and isn't a dense North Easter city by any means dominates on the number of steps people take.
I think it's super goofy how people who don't like the cold make a boogie man out of it.
I don't have the data on weather-related deaths in Dallas vs Houston. I know Harvey killed 75ish people in Texas. Are we going to count car accidents related to rain? Houston gets a lot of that.
Metro Houston is home to the biggest natural disaster in US history. It can and will happen again.
Regardless the point remains: Dallas gets crazy weather and violent thunderstorms and hail, but ice storms are really not a serious threat here at all as they happen infrequently and are quickly recovered from vs having thousands of homes destroyed by flooding.
And I had a full week off of school due to the ice storm in Dallas in 2011 and most non-service related jobs shut down. All of DFW was shut down for longer than Houston was during Harvey. DFW shuts down on an annual basis for a couple of days here and there due to weather (mostly ice/snow). It was one of the things we looked forward to in school was hoping for those few days off. To try and make it seem like Houston is alone in this is being dishonest.
Yeah, they shut down class for us as well, but you could get around if you knew how to drive in it. In fact they had class one day in the middle of the week, but people complained so they closed it again for the 2nd half even though it was fine.
When it thawed we didn't have thousands of people left homeless either.
When they shut things down it's more for the "Fun of it"
The only reason it is dangerous is that Texans are terrible drivers when the roads are dry and don't slow down enough when they have ice. It's a user error.
Yeah, they shut down class for us as well, but you could get around if you knew how to drive in it. In fact they had class one day in the middle of the week, but people complained so they closed it again for the 2nd half even though it was fine.
Just like you could get around Houston easily after Harvey. Most flood waters had receded within the first 24-48 hours. Only the areas nearest some larger reservoirs or near flood prone bayous still had some issues. No different than ice still being around days after the storm initially hit. I was still hitting ice spots the Thursday after the storm, and it took 3-4 days for the ice to completely melt metro wide.
You may have had class, but my side of the metroplex was completely shut down (south of I-30). Also the ice storms covered a much larger area, with almost the entirety of North Texas being affected. Meanwhile Harvey flooded about 10% of homes, but most people were dry once the storm passed with flooding only getting as high as curb level (if even that high) in the majority of areas in Metro Houston.
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When it thawed we didn't have thousands of people left homeless either.
When they shut things down it's more for the "Fun of it"
The only reason it is dangerous is that Texans are terrible drivers when the roads are dry and don't slow down enough when they have ice. It's a user error.
It's not all user error. The roads are poorly maintained in general when there's a storm. Not much is done in the way of prevention and there are spin-outs/bad car accidents (often times with fatalities) almost every year because of iced roads.
Just like you could get around Houston easily after Harvey. Most flood waters had receded within the first 24-48 hours. Only the areas nearest some larger reservoirs or near flood prone bayous still had some issues. No different than ice still being around days after the storm initially hit. I was still hitting ice spots the Thursday after the storm, and it took 3-4 days for the ice to completely melt metro wide.
You may have had class, but my side of the metroplex was completely shut down (south of I-30). Also the ice storms covered a much larger area, with almost the entirety of North Texas being affected. Meanwhile Harvey flooded about 10% of homes, but most people were dry once the storm passed with flooding only getting as high as curb level (if even that high) in the majority of areas in Metro Houston.
OK, if you want to think that an occasional ice storm is a bigger deal that floods and hurricanes be my guest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm
It's not all user error. The roads are poorly maintained in general when there's a storm. Not much is done in the way of prevention and there are spin-outs/bad car accidents (often times with fatalities) almost every year because of iced roads.
90% of them could be avoided if people drove to conditions.
OK, if you want to think that an occasional ice storm is a bigger deal that floods and hurricanes be my guest.
That's not what I said. You posted about Houston being shut down for a week and I replied saying the same can happen and has happened to DFW. Hurricanes definitely have the ability to affect an area longer than a week, and their effects can be longer lasting. But that's only the worst of them, and they don't all do significant damage. Some may only last a day or two.
My point was Houston doesn't routinely shut down for a week, just like DFW doesn't routinely shut down for a week. Randomly it'll happen to both areas, but that's it. Over the last 15-20 years, both metro areas have shut down for a week one time each.
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90% of them could be avoided if people drove to conditions.
Maybe but the state also does a poor job of maintaining. Even Oklahoma and Kansas are better at this. DFW has been through enough storms now, and with the increased population growth, they should know what to do by now.
The number of people killed by and the amount of property damage sustained by winter weather in Dallas is statistically negligible.
It doesn't even happen every year. We don't get snow or ice storms every year. It only gets below freezing a few times a year. That also happens in Houston.
Hurricanes do billions in damages.
Actually, people are more sedentary in warm weather places like Dallas or Houston than they are in Cold weather places like Chicago. Part of that is urban design, but the south is much more sedentary as a whole vs the north.
I've been to Milwaukee in February when its 0 degrees out and it is more foot traffic than Dallas was when it is 40 degrees. People are out and about at the bars and restaurants.
I can easily snowshoe 5 miles in 15-degree weather and feel comfortable as long as I dress for it. Walking 5 miles when it is 100 in Dallas no matter what you wear is dangerous.
The humid and hot South is by far the most Obease part of the US.
MN which is largely rural and cold and isn't a dense North Easter city by any means dominates on the number of steps people take.
I think it's super goofy how people who don't like the cold make a boogie man out of it.
I don't have the data on weather-related deaths in Dallas vs Houston. I know Harvey killed 75ish people in Texas. Are we going to count car accidents related to rain? Houston gets a lot of that.
Metro Houston is home to the biggest natural disaster in US history. It can and will happen again.
Regardless the point remains: Dallas gets crazy weather and violent thunderstorms and hail, but ice storms are really not a serious threat here at all as they happen infrequently and are quickly recovered from vs having thousands of homes destroyed by flooding.
Now your grabbing at straws in desperation when you bring up a hurricane that happened 120 years ago. Hey are them Indians still giving those white settlers problems up there in the middle of nowhere ?
I also think its hilarious that you think bar and restaurant crawls are somehow equivalent to walking 5 miles anywhere. Yes they are active in a very small area in sub freezing conditions but they don't walk 5 miles anywhere in it either.
The obesity rates you speak of are skewed by demographics not activity levels of similar groups.
I want to talk about weather related deaths and you post about weather related damages. Lets talk about deaths first. Since you refuse to post links to support any of your contentions I will be the adult and post links in support of the facts.
"This study analyzes fatality rates resulting from multiple hydrometeorological disasters that affect the state of Texas at the county level. From January 1960 to December 2016, Texas had the highest number of fatalities in the nation in which natural disasters killed an average of 40 people per year [12]. During this period, Texas accounted for 7.4% of all U.S. fatalities (32,289). Flood, heat, and tornado accounted for 60% of all fatalities in Texas during this period. Texas also ranks highest in fatalities per capita (15 fatalities per 100,000 people). During this period two Texas counties ranked in the top ten across all states for the occurrence of disaster events: Harris County (1088 events) and Tarrant County (1009 events). Dallas County, Texas, ranked eighth in the number of fatalities in the U.S. Extensive research has been conducted to investigate the quantitative and qualitative aspect of flooding in the state of Texas [12,13].
The counties with the greatest population density: Harris, Dallas, Bexar, and Travis had the highest actual fatality rate, but each less than 15 fatalities per 100,000 persons over the study period. In contrast, some counties with lower populations had much higher per capita fatalities (higher risk for fatalities) although they were adjacent to the high population counties and experienced similar hydrometeorological disaster frequency and intensity. For example, Bexar county had 8.7 fatalities per 100,000 while surrounding county of Comal had 188 fatalities per 100,000 people. Harris county had 9.5 fatalities per 100,000 and the surrounding counties of Brazoria Chambers had 55 and 40 fatalities per 100,000 respectively. Figure 12 shows that per capita fatality rates are highest in sparsely populated counties in the southwestern portion of Flash Flood Alley and the Texas Panhandle in the northwestern part of the state"
Conclusion death rates from natural disasters are roughly the same in North Texas as in South East Texas ,even though a greater number of deaths from hurricanes come at one time in Coastal Texas, where as deaths in North Texas are more evenly spread out in smaller event that happen more frequently. Guess what ? I bet the cost differential of the two regions, of weather related damage is not as profound as you think either. Please prove me wrong !!!
Last edited by Jack Lance; 06-24-2019 at 01:15 PM..
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