DOWNTOWN BIG"6"..What direction are they going??? (Houston: cost, architecture)

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

I don't remember saying DFW's tech scene is "on par" with Austin - I have definitely said there are a lot of tech jobs, for sure, and historically DFW did have some foundational tech players (Texas Instruments most obviously). But Austin and DFW have had very different tech worlds for awhile now, even if the jobs in both metros fall under the banner of "tech." You yourself pointed out the differences is a pretty fair way, and I agree with that.

I know I bring up Houston's lack of sufficient diversification (could say the same about Austin) and continued dominance of oil and gas in the economy, but a lot of that comes from the work I do which involves real estate markets. And in metros where oil and gas is a big or dominant sector, you really see how it shapes so much of the market in ways that other sectors don't, or at least haven't yet. And like tech in Austin and the SFBA/SV, you see how it can relegate other sectors to bit players for various reasons, like wage levels and role in the labor market, consumption and price of office space, dependence by other sectors such as finance and legal services on its ecosystem, etc. Not as extreme as a place like the Permian, obviously, but still the core story.

And this is where our opinions differ. Austin is much more tech dominant than Houston is energy dominant. While many of Houston’s largest economic engines that are non energy/oil related can still trace a large amount of their drive to energy, the fact that they exist alone set it apart. Whether we are talking about the United hub at IAH, the Chase campus downtown, the logistics and trade centers, TMC, or the many non oil related companies, they exist in Houston where in Austin they’re much less abundant. While it would be asinine to say Houston’s economy is as diverse as DFW, the same would go for Austin’s in comparison to Houston.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

And this is where our opinions differ. Austin is much more tech dominant than Houston is energy dominant. While many of Houston’s largest economic engines that are non energy/oil related can still trace a large amount of their drive to energy, the fact that they exist alone set it apart. Whether we are talking about the United hub at IAH, the Chase campus downtown, the logistics and trade centers, TMC, or the many non oil related companies, they exist in Houston where in Austin they’re much less abundant. While it would be asinine to say Houston’s economy is as diverse as DFW, the same would go for Austin’s in comparison to Houston.

I do agree overall that Austin's economy has become less diverse than Houston's, due to tech dominance. It will be interesting when they experience a true tech crash - which has been known to happen (ask longtime Silicon Valley folks).

But as I noted, when it comes to real estate markets, oil and gas definitely still has very outsize influence. Our office and manufacturing industrial sectors (not including the booming logistics / warehouse sector) are still pretty O&G dependent. Yes HPE was a nice little bump in terms of office occupancy, but as a whole O&G is still very much the driver of large-scale office space consumption. Even non-O&G office users like law and finance firms are often heavily engaged in O&G activity, and O&G may be the main reasons they have their offices in Houston. And while our region obviously has a large manufacturing sector, it is dominantly oriented to O&G. And until the pandemic, the health of the O&G industry had a huge influence on the state of various residential sectors.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by SanJac

Ok! do you think SFBA Californians still think that about Houston? Many of them are moving to Houston and frankly appreciate the lower COL and the diversity... hardly a "hell on earth."

I believe drivers license change data showed that most California immigrants to the Houston area came from Southern California, by far. I certainly remember from my time in the SFBA that Houston was often portrayed as the primary example of everything bad about the U.S. Of course, the folks spouting such nonsense had almost always never been to Houston.

The CA housing crisis has become so extreme that I'm sure many folks have revisited their opinions about Texas and Houston when they figure out that (1) there's actual big international cities, (2) there's jobs including sophisticated professional jobs, and (3) they can actually afford a home here.

[SanJac]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

I believe drivers license change data showed that most California immigrants to the Houston area came from Southern California, by far. I certainly remember from my time in the SFBA that Houston was often portrayed as the primary example of everything bad about the U.S. Of course, the folks spouting such nonsense had almost always never been to Houston.

The CA housing crisis has become so extreme that I'm sure many folks have revisited their opinions about Texas and Houston when they figure out that (1) there's actual big international cities, (2) there's jobs including sophisticated professional jobs, and (3) they can actually afford a home here.

I think the world has changed in the last 40 years. Information is much more readily available on social media, etc. than it was back then. People are not as ignorant, or at least don't have an excuse to be as ignorant.

I also think it depends on the circles you interact in. I have been working with colleagues from the SFBA for the last 25 years and I've never heard any comments as harsh as "Houston is hell on earth." As I mentioned, many of them have re-located to Houston or will be re-locating.

The harshest comments I've heard about Houston are from my colleagues in North Texas - SHOCKER!!

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

I do agree overall that Austin's economy has become less diverse than Houston's, due to tech dominance. It will be interesting when they experience a true tech crash - which has been known to happen (ask longtime Silicon Valley folks).

But as I noted, when it comes to real estate markets, oil and gas definitely still has very outsize influence. Our office and manufacturing industrial sectors (not including the booming logistics / warehouse sector) are still pretty O&G dependent. Yes HPE was a nice little bump in terms of office occupancy, but as a whole O&G is still very much the driver of large-scale office space consumption. Even non-O&G office users like law and finance firms are often heavily engaged in O&G activity, and O&G may be the main reasons they have their offices in Houston. And while our region obviously has a large manufacturing sector, it is dominantly oriented to O&G. And until the pandemic, the health of the O&G industry had a huge influence on the state of various residential sectors.

Correct but the thing is, regardless of whether these companies have 90% of their revenue via O&G or 5%, the fact that they exist in the numbers they do set Houston’s apart from Austin alone.

And the other thing is that not all of these economic engines are dominated by O&G. I for example know for a fact that the Chase campus downtown is mostly just software at this point via one of my professors that worked there while he taught our class. I’m sure years ago and stemming back from the Texas Commerce days, this wasn’t the case. And my thing is if Chase transformed, I would suppose it’s just as likely that others have or are currently in the process of transforming. Moving on to The Life Sciences campus and the TMC as a whole have virtually nothing to do with energy. Overall, many of Houston’s businesses do have O&G clients as their primary client while others have it as a minor or not at all. Nor do many of the businesses (HPE, Crown Castle, etc). Do they exist in Austin? Yes. Just to considerably smaller proportions.

If Austin and San Antonio begin integrating economically in the future, this will help Austin diversify from being just a tech town. But for now, it’s as asinine to say Houston is as diverse as DFW economically as it is to say the same about Austin in comparison to Houston.

[dallasboi]

Looks Like Austin will be the second city in Texas with the freeway deck park concept.
https://youtu.be/4ypbTg9STsg

[SanJac]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

Looks Like Austin will be the second city in Texas with the freeway deck park concept.
https://youtu.be/4ypbTg9STsg

Houston has multiple proposals on the table as well...

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by SanJac

Houston has multiple proposals on the table as well...

Wow that's a lot..... what's the time line for all of that? You think it'll be done before Austin's smaller project in the capital city?

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

Wow that's a lot..... what's the time line for all of that? You think it'll be done before Austin's smaller project in the capital city?

It all depends upon when TxDOT finalizes freeway designs, and the private sector raises the necessary funds for the parks.

[ScoPro]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

I certainly remember from my time in the SFBA that Houston was often portrayed as the primary example of everything bad about the U.S.

From what I’ve read on Texas forums, the folks in Dallas would agree with that sentiment.