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Plus I also think you have to distinguish between initial friendliness and a sustained willingness to have friendly relations with you. In certain situations some people (mostly men) will gladly respond and talk to you for the brief moment you both happen to be where ever you're at. But that may not mean that you've made a connection that will go beyond that encounter.
Moreover, I think you're mistaking politeness for friendliness. Torontonians are polite, but extremely unfriendly. Being friendly is a willingness to initiate interaction with strangers. That Toronto is not.
Toronto is very ill. I wish I could move to the States as I had an opportunity 10 years ago. My friend just came back from San Jose last night (business related) and told me what an amazing time she had and how friendly people were. The men were so open, approachable, nice, respectful and chatty. They would talk to anyone and everyone, including their male counterparts, and buying people (including other men) all sorts of drinks. Relaxed, but with manners.
I can't believe these Toronto guys and how arrogant they are-too good and too arrogant to approach any woman, no matter how gorgeous or nice she is. Even the average ones are so big headed. It's a disease that everyone's infected with.
Someone mentioned suburbs. Well it may be better but not a whole lot. I was raised in, and continue to live in Mississauga (south east) and it's not that different from the downtown core. It's only 15 min away from downtown and I don't see a difference.
Again, another bad experience where someone I randomly met blowing smoke up my ass about how he fell for me as soon as he saw me (my eyes are rolling) and what a great couple we made, how he wanted to be my boyfriend and liked me oh so much (gag), and how he wanted to find someone nice to settle down with. He's the typical 37 year old man-boy you see in Toronto all the time (what the hell's wrong with that age group? So immature). Yet when he finally set a date 2 weeks later, he cancelled two hours before saying he had a fever and was at the walk-in clinic. Such weird behaviour, especially when he was saying how excited he was to see me again earlier in the day lol. Weird, and yet typical Toronto behaviour. Nothing phases or surprises me and I just continue to truck along and I'm completely done with men-like I've said before. I wouldn't have even entertained chatting/being friendly/respectful/polite with this one had he not come on so strong (unusual for Toronto guys). At least I had an awesome time with close friends instead . I deleted him on bbm and never heard from him again lol. I think he must have figured out that he wasn't going to get into my pants so easily and he couldn't mindf*** me like I was still 22.
I just don't get Toronto. It's very isolating. And I personally think the women are this way because of the men. Geesh I wish things were as simple/innocent as they were in our 20s!! :P
men just want to get laid, thats it , get used to it, I am guy and all I want to do is get laid, if one woman doesnt another will
After reading the many posts on the subject of cold Toronto women, here is my take on it all. I was born in Toronto, I am 40 years old, single, no kids, had about 10 women. I make $40,000/yr. Again, the following is my opinion only. It is a little long winded, but it will make my point.
Toronto was started by the losers of the American Revolution around the 1790s. The elites that controlled Upper Canada were called the Family Compact. These elites did not want another revolution to occur here, so they stifled the remaining 95% by creating a society that was wedded to work and God. Any one who spoke out was ostracized. There was one hiccup during the 1837 rebellion, but other than that Toronto became Toronto the good. It was not until the 1980s that you could drink alcohol on Sundays and in some places till the 1970s women had to be with a man to have a drink.
Even though there has been a tremendous cultural change due to the waves of immigration, that underlying “coldness” has always been here. It is a Scottish Presbyterian Calvinistic attitude that work is next to god. The fall of Montreal as the economic engine of Canada due to language laws (starting 1976 to 1987), thereby giving the mantle to Toronto, has created a city that really does not deserve its economic fortune. Toronto was always culturally stagnant compared to Montreal. And the attitude of the elites of Toronto condition the masses below them.
See, Toronto has no culture except one. To make money. And because of this, people in Toronto “generally” judge each other depending on what they do and make. All the immigrants come to Toronto due to economic needs. Not cultural. Not political.
This then therefore affects social interaction between males and females. But this economic judging is being accelerated by changes in the rights of women and the equality of gays. I am not against both, I am just describing the societal impact.
Therefore, you get some women in Toronto who feel, nay, believe that they should have the best man in the city, while not bringing anything to the table. And these women affect the more reasonable women through osmosis. Immigrant women are hit or miss, depending on whether they have a grudge against men. I dated a couple of Russian women who were complete gold diggers, but they rationalized it because they said they had been used by men. Conversely, I dated a Macedonian woman who was very nice and traditional. Be that as it may, women new to Toronto (no more than 6 months) are much friendlier to meet and hook up with.
After 6 months to a year, a woman becomes Torontonianized, which I mean she becomes a business-mate –partner and has gauged her worth in this city.
As for the coldness in Toronto, it is due to the factors above. Generally, unless there is war or a catastrophe, the culture of a society stays the same, and it has not changed in Toronto for at least 180 years. In Toronto, people of higher standing are suspicious of those lower than them, for they feel they will speak about them and know their business and use it against them. This is due to the conditioning of the elites from the past to the present.
Very well said Clovis...I agree with a lot of what you said.
To the American who visited Toronto. Living here is a lot different than visiting here. I think that because you were foreign a lot of people were intrigued by that and willing to help at a drop of a hat. Women would also like you because you are foreign. If you live here you may have the edge over other guys because of that one reason, or simply because you're friendly and you have game compared to other local guys. Or you may likely experience the cold Toronto shoulder after living here a couple of months.
Swan Dive...my point exactly. Men just want to get laid. Then they complain why women are so cold? I don't understand the complaint about women anymore. It makes no sense to me. Men just want to get laid-that's it (according to you and what I already knew). Women typically want relationships, commitment and long term stuff. So....what's the complaint?? That women don't put out enough? A lot of women don't want to put out anymore until they feel more secure about the relationship/commitment status.
Men and women inherently want two different things and can barely co-exist peacefully. Might as well slap on those earphones and ignore men while walking down the street as they clearly don't want what a majority of us want. Easy.
After reading the many posts on the subject of cold Toronto women, here is my take on it all. I was born in Toronto, I am 40 years old, single, no kids, had about 10 women. I make $40,000/yr. Again, the following is my opinion only. It is a little long winded, but it will make my point.
Toronto was started by the losers of the American Revolution around the 1790s. The elites that controlled Upper Canada were called the Family Compact. These elites did not want another revolution to occur here, so they stifled the remaining 95% by creating a society that was wedded to work and God. Any one who spoke out was ostracized. There was one hiccup during the 1837 rebellion, but other than that Toronto became Toronto the good. It was not until the 1980s that you could drink alcohol on Sundays and in some places till the 1970s women had to be with a man to have a drink.
Even though there has been a tremendous cultural change due to the waves of immigration, that underlying “coldness” has always been here. It is a Scottish Presbyterian Calvinistic attitude that work is next to god. The fall of Montreal as the economic engine of Canada due to language laws (starting 1976 to 1987), thereby giving the mantle to Toronto, has created a city that really does not deserve its economic fortune. Toronto was always culturally stagnant compared to Montreal. And the attitude of the elites of Toronto condition the masses below them.
See, Toronto has no culture except one. To make money. And because of this, people in Toronto “generally” judge each other depending on what they do and make. All the immigrants come to Toronto due to economic needs. Not cultural. Not political.
This then therefore affects social interaction between males and females. But this economic judging is being accelerated by changes in the rights of women and the equality of gays. I am not against both, I am just describing the societal impact.
Therefore, you get some women in Toronto who feel, nay, believe that they should have the best man in the city, while not bringing anything to the table. And these women affect the more reasonable women through osmosis. Immigrant women are hit or miss, depending on whether they have a grudge against men. I dated a couple of Russian women who were complete gold diggers, but they rationalized it because they said they had been used by men. Conversely, I dated a Macedonian woman who was very nice and traditional. Be that as it may, women new to Toronto (no more than 6 months) are much friendlier to meet and hook up with.
After 6 months to a year, a woman becomes Torontonianized, which I mean she becomes a business-mate –partner and has gauged her worth in this city.
As for the coldness in Toronto, it is due to the factors above. Generally, unless there is war or a catastrophe, the culture of a society stays the same, and it has not changed in Toronto for at least 180 years. In Toronto, people of higher standing are suspicious of those lower than them, for they feel they will speak about them and know their business and use it against them. This is due to the conditioning of the elites from the past to the present.
Love your post! And alcohol was not the only thing you had a tough time getting on a sunday, even coffee was hard to come by. But Toronto has changed for the better, no thanks to the business-driven mentality that set the chessboard early on. The mix of cultures will obviously smoothe the burr
of this protestant mettle sooner or later, but you are right, there is a hardness there that is hard to fathom or accept when you are used to enjoying life and observing as opposed to competing for money and status.
after reading the many posts on the subject of cold toronto women, here is my take on it all. I was born in toronto, i am 40 years old, single, no kids, had about 10 women. I make $40,000/yr. Again, the following is my opinion only. It is a little long winded, but it will make my point.
Toronto was started by the losers of the american revolution around the 1790s. The elites that controlled upper canada were called the family compact. These elites did not want another revolution to occur here, so they stifled the remaining 95% by creating a society that was wedded to work and god. Any one who spoke out was ostracized. There was one hiccup during the 1837 rebellion, but other than that toronto became toronto the good. It was not until the 1980s that you could drink alcohol on sundays and in some places till the 1970s women had to be with a man to have a drink.
Even though there has been a tremendous cultural change due to the waves of immigration, that underlying “coldness” has always been here. It is a scottish presbyterian calvinistic attitude that work is next to god. The fall of montreal as the economic engine of canada due to language laws (starting 1976 to 1987), thereby giving the mantle to toronto, has created a city that really does not deserve its economic fortune. Toronto was always culturally stagnant compared to montreal. And the attitude of the elites of toronto condition the masses below them.
See, toronto has no culture except one. To make money. And because of this, people in toronto “generally” judge each other depending on what they do and make. All the immigrants come to toronto due to economic needs. Not cultural. Not political.
This then therefore affects social interaction between males and females. But this economic judging is being accelerated by changes in the rights of women and the equality of gays. I am not against both, i am just describing the societal impact.
Therefore, you get some women in toronto who feel, nay, believe that they should have the best man in the city, while not bringing anything to the table. And these women affect the more reasonable women through osmosis. Immigrant women are hit or miss, depending on whether they have a grudge against men. I dated a couple of russian women who were complete gold diggers, but they rationalized it because they said they had been used by men. Conversely, i dated a macedonian woman who was very nice and traditional. Be that as it may, women new to toronto (no more than 6 months) are much friendlier to meet and hook up with.
After 6 months to a year, a woman becomes torontonianized, which i mean she becomes a business-mate –partner and has gauged her worth in this city.
As for the coldness in toronto, it is due to the factors above. Generally, unless there is war or a catastrophe, the culture of a society stays the same, and it has not changed in toronto for at least 180 years. In toronto, people of higher standing are suspicious of those lower than them, for they feel they will speak about them and know their business and use it against them. This is due to the conditioning of the elites from the past to the present.
Swan Dive...my point exactly. Men just want to get laid. Then they complain why women are so cold? I don't understand the complaint about women anymore. It makes no sense to me. Men just want to get laid-that's it (according to you and what I already knew). Women typically want relationships, commitment and long term stuff. So....what's the complaint?? That women don't put out enough? A lot of women don't want to put out anymore until they feel more secure about the relationship/commitment status.
I don't really have an opinion on whether Toronto women are reserved and flaky, but regarding the highlighted statement, if this is true of men the world over, then wouldn't the correlation be that all women around the world would act cold as a result? Or is it that Toronto men are unique in being obsessed about getting laid, which lead to Toronto women's "cold" behaviour (as described by most everyone here, not necessarily me).
When I'm walking around the streets of Toronto do you know what I see? I see all kinds of women walking hand in hand with their boyfriends smiling and laughing and enjoying themselves. All these guys with these girls seemed to be able to land these cold, gold digging "reserved and flaky" Toronto women, so it seems to me that the OP and others who agree with him just don't know how to talk to women. Or maybe they're always going for women who are way out of their league?
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. I deleted him on bbm and never heard from him again lol. I think he must have figured out that he wasn't going to get into my pants so easily and he couldn't mindf*** me like I was still 22.