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I have to agree with you. I am a moderator on a travel web site. I never see anybody asking about or discussing Toronto. On the other hand, Montreal, Vancouver, and to a lesser extent Quebec city are often dicussed as travel destinations.
For the limited time and money, I really see little point for people flying over to see Toronto.
It is not beautiful and it doesn't offer nearly as much as many other big cities. Even Boston is more interesting, not to say Montreal.
I am well travelled in north America, and Toronto shouldn't be one of the top 10 cities to visit on this continent. It hardly has anything uniquely interesting.
People sometimes talk about "neighbourhoods", Chinatown, Ktown, Danforth etc. Who doesn't have these ethnic communities anyway? Practically every single big city in North America cities have these. Kensington Market? not nearly as interesting as many suggest.
Toronto is a comfortable city to live in, but honestly, it is very boring to visit. Unless of course you are some small town boy who hasn't seen anything in the world yet.
For the limited time and money, I really see little point for people flying over to see Toronto.
It is not beautiful and it doesn't offer nearly as much as many other big cities. Even Boston is more interesting, not to say Montreal.
I am well travelled in north America, and Toronto shouldn't be one of the top 10 cities to visit on this continent. It hardly has anything uniquely interesting.
And yet Toronto sees more international tourists than any other city in Canada and more than most major American cities, including Chicago. Your opinion means nothing. Toronto is easily a top 5 city in North America.
And yet Toronto sees more international tourists than any other city in Canada and more than most major American cities, including Chicago. Your opinion means nothing. .
"Visitor" numbers are notoriously unrealiable.
A lot of the time they are simply the number of people who arrive in a city's airport on international flights. So someone who lands at Pearson and then immediately flies to Sudbury is counted as an international visitor to Toronto...
Another factor is that Toronto is one of the most diverse cities in the world and so millions of Torontonians have relatives abroad that sometimes come to visit. This is not necessarily a good measure of the attractiveness of the city to foreign visitors. Auntie Myrtle or Tia Esmeralda could live in Moosonee, their relatives would still go visit them. They are known in tourism parlance as VFRs (visiting friends and relatives), and they do count in the economic contribution of tourism of course. But they don't necessarily mean anything when it comes to a city being a "dream destination".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticman
Toronto is easily a top 5 city in North America.
As an overall city? Absolutely. Without question. As a "dream vacation" destination? Not really. Many other cities just in Canada including many smaller ones are more desirable and renowned travel destinations.
I do not think people in everywhere think NYC as unique LOL and NYC is not "THE" American city anymore. Los Angeles has taken over NYC for several years now.
L.A. has not "taken over" NYC as the quintessential American city yet, nor has it come close... and unless the American economy picks up vastly and something happens to NY to prevent it from getting any better as a result, it never will.
And yet Toronto sees more international tourists than any other city in Canada and more than most major American cities, including Chicago. Your opinion means nothing. Toronto is easily a top 5 city in North America.
where are your stats? When you say international, you mean 85% of them Americans?
I think number of visitors from non-North America countries will be convincing. I wouldn't count those from upstate NY or Michigan who came for a weekend to visit relatives.
No 5? Let's see, New York, LA, Chicago, San Francisco, Washington DC, Las Vegas and Miami probably will all beat Toronto. Boston, Montreal, Vancouver, New Orleans might win as well.
I actually put a vote on "World" forum. Let's see how attractive Toronto is.
L.A. has not "taken over" NYC as the quintessential American city yet, nor has it come close... and unless the American economy picks up vastly and something happens to NY to prevent it from getting any better as a result, it never will.
Los Angeles isn't even close to New York as a city. I live just an hour from Los Angeles. It doesn't have a core downtown area. It is famous for Disneyland which is not in Los Angeles, Hollywood, etc. but does not fit the standard definition of a city. San Diego has a more vibrant downtown. I have walked in downtown Toronto in the summer and did not really notice any foreign tourists though I am sure there were some. In Manhattan, the streets are packed along 7th and 5th avenues with tourists from all over the world.
I have walked in downtown Toronto in the summer and did not really notice any foreign tourists though I am sure there were some. In Manhattan, the streets are packed along 7th and 5th avenues with tourists from all over the world.
I work in downtown Toronto and do see the occasional tourist with a map book wandering the downtown core. The question is how many of these "tourists" are foreign nationals with relatives living in Toronto vs. those who came explicitly to Toronto as a vacation destination. Despite what a lot of homers have made it sound like, Toronto lacks the world-class attractions found in cities like NY, London, Paris, etc. Seriously... You'd have to be an utter dolt to compare the ROM to the Met and the Louvre, or Yonge-Dundas Sq. to Times Square and Piccadilly Circus, etc. All this thread has done is reinforced how inferior Torontonians feel when their city is compared to those of actual world-class scale.
For the record, I don't actually think that Toronto doesn't get international tourists. Of course it gets a whole bunch of them. If you are going to do a tour of central and eastern Canada, you are likely to arrive or pass through Toronto - it'd be dumb not to take some time to see the city. Especially if you are from far away.
People can and do visit places that aren't necessarily the primary destination of the trip.
Torontonians are very insecure when you say anything remotely negative about the city. They take it like a personal insult and get very defensive and illogical. There's good and bad in very city in the world, be it Toronto, Berlin, Seattle, Dubai, Sydney, etc. I say let the facts stand on their own and let's accept them for what they are. This inferiority complex needs to end as other cities don't give a hoot what others think of them but Torontonians are as sensitive as a teenager about their zits. I think the main problem is the constant comparision of Toronto to other bigger, more global cities. And the fact that Toronto has not developed a real brand, image or personality that other cities have, whether deserved or not. As a result, we are constantly looking for afirmation and attention from others to reassure ourselves that Toronto is indeed worthy. That's insecurity and the city's biggest downfall. We should forget about trying to be like NY, Chicago, London, SF, whatever... It's a LOSING game. Instead, focus on what makes the city good and unique. Even posters who defend Toronto make terrible arguments in its defense. But it's a modern, multicultural, liberal-minded town. It takes the business aspects of the US, the socially progressive atmosphere of Europe, and puts a unique Canadian stamp on it with it's tolerance and peacefulness. That's something to work with. There is nothing in particular that it excels from a visual or insitutional perpsective but it's provides a good, balanced quality of life. World class? Beautiful? Famous? No, it's none of these things but why should one care if they are secure and happy with what they have. If one is truly secure and happy with what they have, then would not give a hoot about what others think. The leadership in the city planners/major/province has done and continues to do a terrible job in building and branding this city. It's not perfect and never will be, and there many things I dislike about the city, but if you stop comparing and copying others and accepting it for what it is by building on the unique aspects of the city, then I think it will be a big step in ending this inferiority complex. Until then, it will never achieve it's potential. Maybe I'm too idealistic.
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