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Old 11-26-2012, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Cambridge, MA/London, UK
3,653 posts, read 4,429,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnathanc View Post
I hear you but let me explain the basis of my comment.

Firstly, if I recall, you live in Cambridge and I live near MGH/Beacon Hill. So you live in a more ecletic neighborhood than I do and have more options at your door step. Believe it or not, I do not have a decent Chinese restaurant that is easily walkable to where I live - I order online or go to Chinatown or a different neighborhood when I have the craving. So the statement is based on my location, which is a quiet old-money type neighborhood - which there are a lot of in Boston proper.

Secondly, I agree that there is hardly any cuisine you can find in Toronto that you can't find in Boston or Chicago or any big city nowadays - vice versa. But because Toronto is much more immigrant-based, there is a greater "quantity" of ethnic restaurants like Indian, cantonese, roti, etc. everywhere. It's more in your face in Toronto and what I am used to growing up with. But I agree that the hispanic vibe of US cities presents options that are limited/don't exist in Toronto and unlike New England cusine, Toronto doesn't really have a local cuisine.
Thanks for the clarification. I would agree, Beacon Hill is a beautiful neighborhood, but overall is a pretty mediocre place to eat (I used to live on Chestnut St for a while myself) Thankfully you are an easy enough walk from some more interesting places to eat like Chinatown as you mentioned.

Toronto as you said is definitely more in your face with its diversity, so once again I agree that there is alot more of it available than in a smaller city like Boston. Now its debatable how much of it is good quality, but quantity wise you have an abundance available.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:52 PM
 
242 posts, read 464,167 times
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Toronto is an impressive city. To deny that would be ridiculous. I've been to every major US city and Toronto really does hold it's weight. There are two posters on here who are clearly anti-Toronto and pro-everywhere else lol. It's clear to see who those two people are. Everybody else has no experience and has never left Toronto. Apparently I missed the news that only these two people can get on an airplane. Regardless, I will give credibility to a person who has lived in a city. That holds weight. But a person can get a pretty good idea from visiting a city multiple times, having family who lives there, and engaging with the locales, visiting attractions, etc.

Toronto is a growing city, even 10 years ago the city has changed so much in that time. In 10 years from now, it will continue to be even more impressive. It's got some catching up to do. NYC dominates in North America clearly. Toronto doesn't come close. But after that it can be a legit argument. LA is huge but very spread out. It has a nice downtown but it's skyline isn't as impressive compared to TO. Both cities are bustling and have tons to do. Chicago beats TO on skyline, transit, economy, and lake front, but Toronto has a unique feel to it and as every year passes, TO has a more legit reason to compete with Chicago. Give it time and the comparison becomes more realistic. Toronto has a lot of events to be fair. Nuit Blanche brings out hundreds of thousands of people, Gay Pride brings out 1 million, Carabana posts similar numbers, Tastes on the Danforth brings out over 1.3 million people, the Ex brings out millions more. TO has tons of festivals and events. It can easily compete with any city in NA on this front. Arguing that one city beats another is like beating a dead horse. Nobody will win that argument.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:51 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 12,448,859 times
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^^ while you pointed out two posters who are "anti-Toronto", you failed to mention a few who repeatedly and irrationally elevated Toronto to a glorified status it doesn't rightly deserve.

Last edited by botticelli; 11-28-2012 at 07:09 AM..
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:57 AM
 
75 posts, read 139,271 times
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I would say Chicago. Lots of ethnic neighborhoods, a morally conservative undertone (and I don't mean that in the Rush Limbaugh way), a yuppie center.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:07 AM
 
1,218 posts, read 2,298,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
^^ while you pointed out two posters who are "anti-Toronto", you failed to mention a few who repeatedly and irrationally elevated Toronto to a glorified status it doesn't rightly deserve.
The problem is that anyone who doesn't agree that Toronto is second to NYC on this continent (excl. Mexico) is branded as anti-Toronto by those who believe so whether they admit it or not. I'm sorry but Toronto is good town with a lot to offer and I would agree that is generally underrated on a world scale. But my position is that NYC, LA, SF(Bay), and Chicago have more to offer overall as cities. Toronto is a legit contender for number #5 on this continent when you consider all categories. In fact, because it has first city status, it should get #5 placement with Boston, DC, and Philly following. How does one become anti-Toronto with this viewpoint? (as I'm sure the poster is 'unfairly' putting me in this camp b/c I say things one doesn't want to hear). In fact, no one has ever been able to put forth a legitimate argument as to why Toronto should be ranked higher on these boards, and one's personal preference (which is entirely shaped by where you were raised and 100% subjective) or anti-US sentiment should not be considered to be fair.

I promise you that if the tables were turned, and some of these folks were born and raised in another city like Chicago or SF they would pump the city like no tomorrow and would scoff (perhaps unjustly) at any comparision to a city like Toronto. One can be intimate with your surroundings and like it, but easily lose sight that other places are actually pretty damn good too, and this is generally the case when someone has never lived anywhere except one place. Travel is fine but you will never become intimate with a city by visiting. Imagine someone visiting Toronto: CN Tower, Yonge, Yorkville, King, and Front --one may like or dislike what they see but they will not garner any insight into actually living in Toronto and they will miss out on many cool things that locals enjoy plus all the not-so-good aspects as well. They gather some knowledge but it's surface level, which is better than nothing mind you.

I find it annoying when people pump up something without knowledge or facts and are completely one-sided in their arguments - its akin to a car salesman or real estate agent saying anything to sell you. If I showed up for work and presented a one-side argument without being factual, objectively considering all pros and cons, and based it entirely on what I feel without taking time to understand other viewpoints -- I'd be fired.

Last edited by johnathanc; 11-28-2012 at 08:22 AM..
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:45 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 12,448,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnathanc View Post
Toronto is good town with a lot to offer and I would agree that is generally underrated on a world scale. But my position is that NYC, LA, SF(Bay), and Chicago have more to offer overall as cities. Toronto is a legit contender for number #5 on this continent when you consider all categories. In fact, because it has first city status, it should get #5 placement with Boston, DC, and Philly following.
This has exactly been my view of Toronto, a fairly large city in the same league of Philadelphia, Boston, DC and San Fran (to a less extend), which is pretty good, considering the entire Canada is smaller than California. But pretending Toronto is as interesting or significant as LA or Chicago, or even somehow imagine it is somehow superior to those two makes me laugh every time. We all know NYC is a different animal, maybe it is time to admit Chi/LA are too. Toronto won't be at what Chicago is in 20 years, not to mention a much larger Los Angeles.

Toronto is not second to NYC in anything, if I may repeat, let it be downtown vibrancy, or cultural events, or restaurants, or urban planning/transit, or diversity.
And Toronto is NOT Canada's NYC either. It is a funny statement. These two cities have very little in common and should NEVER be compared.


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnathanc View Post
I promise you that if the tables were turned, and some of these folks were born and raised in another city like Chicago or SF they would pump the city like no tomorrow and would scoff (perhaps unjustly) at any comparision to a city like Toronto.
That's 100% for sure.
I have even seen posts claiming Toronto's nondescript Harbourfront Centre is superior or more "functional" than Chicago's Millinieum Park on some forum. It is like saying ROM/AGO is better than le Louvre and it is embarassing. This is how far Torotonians are willing to go. Nobody in this world, if not born in Toronto, would agree on that.

I believe this forum needs us "anti-Toronto" members to provide a reality check from time to time.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:00 AM
 
242 posts, read 464,167 times
Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnathanc View Post
The problem is that anyone who doesn't agree that Toronto is second to NYC on this continent (excl. Mexico) is branded as anti-Toronto by those who believe so whether they admit it or not. I'm sorry but Toronto is good town with a lot to offer and I would agree that is generally underrated on a world scale. But my position is that NYC, LA, SF(Bay), and Chicago have more to offer overall as cities. Toronto is a legit contender for number #5 on this continent when you consider all categories. In fact, because it has first city status, it should get #5 placement with Boston, DC, and Philly following. How does one become anti-Toronto with this viewpoint? (as I'm sure the poster is 'unfairly' putting me in this camp b/c I say things one doesn't want to hear). In fact, no one has ever been able to put forth a legitimate argument as to why Toronto should be ranked higher on these boards, and one's personal preference (which is entirely shaped by where you were raised and 100% subjective) or anti-US sentiment should not be considered to be fair.

I promise you that if the tables were turned, and some of these folks were born and raised in another city like Chicago or SF they would pump the city like no tomorrow and would scoff (perhaps unjustly) at any comparision to a city like Toronto. One can be intimate with your surroundings and like it, but easily lose sight that other places are actually pretty damn good too, and this is generally the case when someone has never lived anywhere except one place. Travel is fine but you will never become intimate with a city by visiting. Imagine someone visiting Toronto: CN Tower, Yonge, Yorkville, King, and Front --one may like or dislike what they see but they will not garner any insight into actually living in Toronto and they will miss out on many cool things that locals enjoy plus all the not-so-good aspects as well. They gather some knowledge but it's surface level, which is better than nothing mind you.

I find it annoying when people pump up something without knowledge or facts and are completely one-sided in their arguments - its akin to a car salesman or real estate agent saying anything to sell you. If I showed up for work and presented a one-side argument without being factual, objectively considering all pros and cons, and based it entirely on what I feel without taking time to understand other viewpoints -- I'd be fired.

I don't agree with this. I have traveled to Montreal 3 times, never lived there, but I instantly had a connection with the city. I feel very intimate with the city and would argue the vibe and aura of Montreal surpasses any other city I've been to in North America including NYC. You DO NOT need to live somewhere to develop a feel for a place. It helps no doubt but I know myself and I always try to go beyond the typical tourist traps when I visit somewhere. I like to understand the city and feel out its vibe and projection it gives off.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:07 AM
 
242 posts, read 464,167 times
Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
This has exactly been my view of Toronto, a fairly large city in the same league of Philadelphia, Boston, DC and San Fran (to a less extend), which is pretty good, considering the entire Canada is smaller than California. But pretending Toronto is as interesting or significant as LA or Chicago, or even somehow imagine it is somehow superior to those two makes me laugh every time. We all know NYC is a different animal, maybe it is time to admit Chi/LA are too. Toronto won't be at what Chicago is in 20 years, not to mention a much larger Los Angeles.

Toronto is not second to NYC in anything, if I may repeat, let it be downtown vibrancy, or cultural events, or restaurants, or urban planning/transit, or diversity.
And Toronto is NOT Canada's NYC either. It is a funny statement. These two cities have very little in common and should NEVER be compared.




That's 100% for sure.
I have even seen posts claiming Toronto's nondescript Harbourfront Centre is superior or more "functional" than Chicago's Millinieum Park on some forum. It is like saying ROM/AGO is better than le Louvre and it is embarassing. This is how far Torotonians are willing to go. Nobody in this world, if not born in Toronto, would agree on that.

I believe this forum needs us "anti-Toronto" members to provide a reality check from time to time.

Hahaha I remember we had this argument months ago. London is the UK's NYC, Tokyo is Japans NYC, Berlin is Germany's NYC, Paris is France's NYC, Sydney is Australia's NYC, Rio is Brazils NYC, Rome is Italy's NYC, and Toronto is Canada's NYC. None of these cities have anything in common but the analogy makes sense because NYC is seen as a beacon and is America's largest and most influential city. Don't take it to heart so much. It's like saying "Tupac is the Michael Jackson of rap". Is this saying that Tupac has changed the music industry on a global scale as Michael Jackson? Of course not. But it's human nature to draw comparisons. The fact your mind cannot at least realize how people draw such comparisons puzzles me.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Cambridge, MA/London, UK
3,653 posts, read 4,429,589 times
Reputation: 3036
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
I don't agree with this. I have traveled to Montreal 3 times, never lived there, but I instantly had a connection with the city. I feel very intimate with the city and would argue the vibe and aura of Montreal surpasses any other city I've been to in North America including NYC. You DO NOT need to live somewhere to develop a feel for a place. It helps no doubt but I know myself and I always try to go beyond the typical tourist traps when I visit somewhere. I like to understand the city and feel out its vibe and projection it gives off.
He is not saying that you can't develop an appreciation or connection with a city you visit, some places as you mentioned just jump out and grab you, that is completely natural. But no matter how open minded and diligent a traveler you are, you will never have the same understanding of a city that a local does. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:35 AM
 
1,218 posts, read 2,298,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
I don't agree with this. I have traveled to Montreal 3 times, never lived there, but I instantly had a connection with the city. I feel very intimate with the city and would argue the vibe and aura of Montreal surpasses any other city I've been to in North America including NYC. You DO NOT need to live somewhere to develop a feel for a place. It helps no doubt but I know myself and I always try to go beyond the typical tourist traps when I visit somewhere. I like to understand the city and feel out its vibe and projection it gives off.
Everyone in Toronto goes to MTL at some point, especially when you are younger. I've been there many more than 3 times and know people that live there. You are still going to MTL as a tourist, and probably in the summertime when the city is littered with tourists. I agree it is a fun city to visit, and more fun than Toronto, but unless you live there, I'm sorry man but you really don't know anything about living in MTL. And if you don't speak french (I don't think you do but I could be wrong), try living there being from the GTA and let me know how that goes.

I've had anglophone friends and family members enjoy their summertime visits and get mesmerized by allure of the french language. They moved there and reality set in. There are no jobs and if you can find one it pays pitifully low, most people there will take your tourist dollars but do not really like english speakers from Ontario, the city infrastructure was horrible, business and politcs are corrupt and not up to 1st world standards, the people were very blue collar and not like their dreamed up version of a mini-Paris, there is a strong welfare state mentality where everyone complains about everything all the time and no one wants to work, the winters are unbearable, and french speakers do not socialize with english speakers much at all (english speakers live in a very small bubble). I've even dated a girl once who's family was all from Quebec and she spoke perfect french but lived in Toronto her whole life and still had problems being accepted by the people there due to politics - I wish things were different but they are not.

MTL is more fun than Toronto to visit and offers a unique culture compared to the english speaking continent but Toronto is far superior in every other aspect compared to MTL when it comes to actual living, not visiting. I don't think you have the full picture of MTL based on your 3 visits.
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