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Old 10-14-2016, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic, USA
189 posts, read 166,765 times
Reputation: 133

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eevee17 View Post
I live in the North East, NJ, and have never heard attache or attache case not having to do with this case. Maybe it's a regional thing. IMO, seems like something a Francophile would say.
Eevee, it's really a minor point that has very little if any probative value, compared to other areas of the note or the case you might devote your attention to. That's just my two cents. Can't you just trust us on this one?
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic, USA
189 posts, read 166,765 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
OTOH, why did the person (people) bring in their own cord and duct tape (and, some would say, stun gun)? They came in with a plan that was related to kidnapping. I doubt that they intended to harm or kill her initially.
As many theorize (I think you are included, if I recall), the killer might be a sexual sadist who intended to restrain JB so he could have his way, but never planned to kill her until things stopped going according to plan somehow. He doesn't even need to be a sadist, duct tape and cord might be in his kit just in case he needs to restrain her to get what he came for.

I don't think actual kidnapping was ever a goal, though I think it could be possible he may have expected to persuade JB to come with him (though in that case, he would probably realize he would sooner or later need to kill her to avoid being identified).

Then again, if it was Oliva or someone with similar problems, the plan wouldn't necessarily even make logical sense to anyone but him at the time he did it.

No scenario anyone has come up with for this crime really makes total sense, or fits all of the evidence. A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. If it's ever truly solved, we'll all probably slap ourselves on the forehead and say, "Of course!", but until then, this thing can look completely different depending on what angle you view it from.
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:47 PM
 
1,177 posts, read 1,132,258 times
Reputation: 1060
Quote:
Originally Posted by meibomius View Post
Yeah, agreed. We've had several people much closer to John & Patsy's generation than Eevee (in some cases some who completely disagree with each other on things like who did it) testify plainly and unequivically that attaché used to indeed be used that way quite a bit, with or without "case" attached to it (more often with, of course).

I hope Eevee will recognize our real-world experiences and just trust us on this. I guess you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Why am I just to believe the people who responded? I have real world experience, too. I provided sources for my findings. Everyone else is just telling anecdotes. Which I don't mind, but you don't have the right to tell me my experience isn't valid.
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic, USA
189 posts, read 166,765 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
As far as I can see, looks like we agree.
What?! How the heck did that happen?
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:50 PM
 
1,177 posts, read 1,132,258 times
Reputation: 1060
Quote:
Originally Posted by meibomius View Post
As many theorize (I think you are included, if I recall), the killer might be a sexual sadist who intended to restrain JB so he could have his way, but never planned to kill her until things stopped going according to plan somehow. He doesn't even need to be a sadist, duct tape and cord might be in his kit just in case he needs to restrain her to get what he came for.

I don't think actual kidnapping was ever a goal, though I think it could be possible he may have expected to persuade JB to come with him (though in that case, he would probably realize he would sooner or later need to kill her to avoid being identified).

Then again, if it was Oliva or someone with similar problems, the plan wouldn't necessarily even make logical sense to anyone but him at the time he did it.

No scenario anyone has come up with for this crime really makes total sense, or fits all of the evidence. A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. If it's ever truly solved, we'll all probably slap ourselves on the forehead and say, "Of course!", but until then, this thing can look completely different depending on what angle you view it from.
I don't think anyone but the family would fake a kidnapping. Even if someone busted in murder was the intent why leave a lengthy calling card? Especially since they got in and out undetected. Even if part of the plan was to take the corpse, which would get money, why leave the note when it didn't work out?
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic, USA
189 posts, read 166,765 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eevee17 View Post
Why am I just to believe the people who responded? I have real world experience, too. I provided sources for my findings. Everyone else is just telling anecdotes. Which I don't mind, but you don't have the right to tell me my experience isn't valid.
Your experience is not invalid (and I don't think anyone was really saying that), but your experience mostly took place in a time that was different from the period teens and adults experienced leading up to this crime. Popular culture and language change with the passage of time. "Album" used to be understood to refer almost exclusively to vinyl LP records, then came cassette tapes that were still called "albums", and today records have entirely disappeared from most people's lives, but people still use album to refer to CDs, or to a collection of downloaded digital files. Not a precisely similar example, I admit, but it's what came to mind, and I think you can get what I mean.

I won't belabor this any more. If you haven't been convinced, probably nothing anyone says will.
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:16 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,077 posts, read 28,561,936 times
Reputation: 18189
Quote:
Originally Posted by meibomius View Post
What?! How the heck did that happen?
Who would've guessed...lol
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic, USA
189 posts, read 166,765 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eevee17 View Post
I don't think anyone but the family would fake a kidnapping. Even if someone busted in murder was the intent why leave a lengthy calling card? Especially since they got in and out undetected. Even if part of the plan was to take the corpse, which would get money, why leave the note when it didn't work out?
The note is misdirection to confuse people and attempt to lead them away from the killer. An intruder would have much the same reason to write the note as the Ramseys, to misdirect.

It strikes me as entirely plausible for an intruder who had not initially planned to kill JB, but had to improvise when things went wrong.

As for why he would take so long to write such a lengthy note, one possibility I've never heard anyone even consider is, suppose JB did scream, and the neighbor really heard that. First he would silence her (with the head blow and/or the duct tape). Then he would freeze and listen for any sign that the Ramseys heard and were coming down. If he did hear them coming, he could tear out of there in a few seconds, before anyone reached the ground floor. BUT, if he doesn't hear the Ramseys, he's worried a neighbor might have heard and might be looking out their window to see if they can see anything and might see him leaving, in which case he should stay put for now, also listening for sirens in the distance, in which case he needs to book out of there as fast as possible, neighbors or no neighbors.

When the Ramseys don't come down, it makes sense to sit tight for a while, until enough time has passed that neighbors would have gone back to sleep and the police would have come already if they were going to. The note took about twenty minutes. He might have thought that's about how long he should wait before trying to leave.

One possibility.
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:44 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,077 posts, read 28,561,936 times
Reputation: 18189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eevee17 View Post
I live in the North East, NJ, and have never heard attache or attache case not having to do with this case. Maybe it's a regional thing. IMO, [/b]seems like something a Francophile would say.
I'll throw in my 2 cents...francophiles close. From my generational gap pov, usage of 'Attache', formal leaning toward pretentious. Brings to mind the movie Inspector Clouseau ( before your generation).
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:48 PM
 
1,177 posts, read 1,132,258 times
Reputation: 1060
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
I'll throw in my 2 cents...francophiles close. From my generational gap pov, usage of 'Attache', formal leaning toward pretentious. Brings to mind the movie Inspector Clouseau ( before your generation).

True, but formal and pretentious also seem to describe Patsy. I just don't understand how a strange wrote a note that matches the writing in their photo albums.
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