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You are unbelievable irish_bob. You studiously ignore that not soldiers but openlt criminal, evil murderous scum like the PIRA got off with a whole lot of what they did by a prime minister. a great 3-figure number of thugs and that is okay?? Historically i can mention at the rebel situ in Dublin before the then Free State allowed a whole group of British government staff murdered each one in the bed and breakfast places across Dublin.So come on would-be balanced Southerner one sided??
Don't know where you are from jmanOwar but hd hoped had good schools.........
Well you and I have discussed the differences between Unionists and Loyalists, the same as with Nationalists and Republicans. Obviously one could claim to be one or the other, or even both is some sense. But the harder core of either group would be the Loyalists/Republicans.
So in the event of a vote for a unified Ireland certainly most on your side of the street would be against, and most on the other for.
However if the vote was to become part of Ireland, that would be it in theory. The only ones claiming legitimate aggrieved status would be those who were against the GFA to begin with.
Even then, it is hard to imagine whom the Loyalists would take up arms against. Most in the PSNI are British, and I cannot see them attacking the British military. So whom could they lash out against to have any impact on an impending handover of governance to Ireland?
Sorry for the delay in answering your question, as I think the "chop and change" part threw me.
Frankly I am still not sure what it means, but assuming you are talking about attending other services (not switching denominations) most everyone I know has attended services outside of funerals, wedding or baptisms.
It might not be on a regular basis, but as with my experiences, if you are with family/friends during the Christian holidays, you go to services with them at their church.
It would seem weird to say ok, we are all going to separate churches and we will meet back here for lunch.
Here is a short comedy clip where the visiting in-laws attempt such a thing with apprehension of going to a Catholic church;
Only once do I remember a time when a friend of a friend (who was very southern Baptist) didn't want to go to a Catholic church for Easter, because she thought it might be sinful to do so.
We were guests at a friends house who were Catholic because the wife was, you know one of those deals. Everyone was looking at her like she was nuts, and I nicely explained I had been to Catholic churches before, and fire and brimstone was not brought upon me.
I even joked with her how I had seen a Baptist "born again" adult baptism, and though it seemed strange to me, I didn't feel any remorse for having done so.
Heck I told her I had even been to a Morman church once, and she seemed more shocked about that than me having gone to a Catholic one.
So while I cannot speak for the RJ's of the world, here in America it seems pretty common for Christians of various denominations to attend another church on such occasions (not just weddings and funerals).
It would seem pretty sad that people in NI didn't have friends from the other side of town just because of religious differences within the same faith.
Though I probably could not differentiate between a regular Catholic vs. a Roman Catholic, I wonder if RJ or posters like Ulsterman have any friends that are "RC" ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
Again, a regular Catholic is a Roman Catholic. The terms are used interchangeably, as opposed to Orthodox Catholic.
That is what you took away from my post, just that small aspect
I have never professed to be an expert regarding the Catholic religion, nor would I know the difference between the regular/Roman/Orthodox.
So while you say it is the same, I suspect there are differences. None of the churches I drove by the last two days said Roman Catholic on them, as I specifically looked. None said Orthodox Catholic either.
I guess I have heard of Roman or Orthodox in movies and the like, but never in person with someone declaring they are one or the other. All the Catholics I know just say they are Catholic.
I do know some Catholic schools will specify whether they are run by groups like the Marist Brothers, or Jesuit Priests. What difference that makes is beyond the average person in America, and frankly they probably do not care.
Lets face it, what happens here in America is not going on in NI. For example can you imagine a Protestant in NI sending their kids to Catholic schools or visa versa?
In America you have Jews and Muslims who will send their kids to Christian schools for a better education than they could get in public schools.
They do not worry about the schools trying to indoctrinate their kids into a different religion.
I don't have any stats or even anecdotal evidence, but I suspect the people of NI rarely send their kids to each others schools, even though that might not be a bad idea.
You are unbelievable irish_bob. You studiously ignore that not soldiers but openlt criminal, evil murderous scum like the PIRA got off with a whole lot of what they did by a prime minister. a great 3-figure number of thugs and that is okay?? Historically i can mention at the rebel situ in Dublin before the then Free State allowed a whole group of British government staff murdered each one in the bed and breakfast places across Dublin.So come on would-be balanced Southerner one sided??
Don't know where you are from jmanOwar but hd hoped had good schools.........
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
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That is what you took away from my post, just that small aspect
I have never professed to be an expert regarding the Catholic religion, nor would I know the difference between the regular/Roman/Orthodox.
So while you say it is the same, I suspect there are differences. None of the churches I drove by the last two days said Roman Catholic on them, as I specifically looked. None said Orthodox Catholic either.
I guess I have heard of Roman or Orthodox in movies and the like, but never in person with someone declaring they are one or the other. All the Catholics I know just say they are Catholic.
I do know some Catholic schools will specify whether they are run by groups like the Marist Brothers, or Jesuit Priests. What difference that makes is beyond the average person in America, and frankly they probably do not care.
Lets face it, what happens here in America is not going on in NI. For example can you imagine a Protestant in NI sending their kids to Catholic schools or visa versa?
In America you have Jews and Muslims who will send their kids to Christian schools for a better education than they could get in public schools.
They do not worry about the schools trying to indoctrinate their kids into a different religion.
I don't have any stats or even anecdotal evidence, but I suspect the people of NI rarely send their kids to each others schools, even though that might not be a bad idea.
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Why don't you just google Catholic, Roman Catholic, and Orthodox Catholic, since you don't want to believe me? If you ever had a world history class you would have learned about the schism in the Catholic church.
FYI, I don't know a single person in real life who plays musical churches, as you have presented, in real life. Not a single one.
Why don't you just google Catholic, Roman Catholic, and Orthodox Catholic, since you don't want to believe me? If you ever had a world history class you would have learned about the schism in the Catholic church.
FYI, I don't know a single person in real life who plays musical churches, as you have presented, in real life. Not a single one.
Actually I am not that interested in learning the the ins & outs of various Catholic traditions in various churches.
It was just mentioned that the specific and intentional effort to always mention Roman Catholic by RJhowie (who clearly has issues with Catholics) and other Protestants in NI seemed to have a reason.
Irish Bob said that UUP leader Trimble said it was something they do by speaking properly within NI, (presumably without malice) so that was the reason for it.
However and while I have respect for Trimble, he likely does not speak for all Unionists.
The more I think about it, I suspect there is more to it in some cases.
As to you not knowing a single person who as you put it "plays musical churches", just like the scenario portrayed in the comedy show Everybody Love Raymond, it does happen.
Even though we do not know each other personally, you and I do now know about each other on some level, and since I have done it on more than one occasion, you know someone who has.
The only way I could see it not happening would be if people only had friends and family of the exact same denomination, and were never invited to go to someone elses church. To refuse your host on such a holiday would seem a lot weirder than joining along and seeing what other denominations do. In the video clip (for those who have not watched it) a Presbyterian family is invited to go to Easter services at the in-laws Catholic church.
While the dad seems a little apprehensive (which makes the scene funny) the mother says the typical thing, by saying it will be interesting to observe other denominations.
Southbound, are you really telling us you, nor anyone you have ever known has gone into another Christian denominations church for service
Well you and I have discussed the differences between Unionists and Loyalists, the same as with Nationalists and Republicans. Obviously one could claim to be one or the other, or even both is some sense. But the harder core of either group would be the Loyalists/Republicans.
So in the event of a vote for a unified Ireland certainly most on your side of the street would be against, and most on the other for.
However if the vote was to become part of Ireland, that would be it in theory. The only ones claiming legitimate aggrieved status would be those who were against the GFA to begin with.
Even then, it is hard to imagine whom the Loyalists would take up arms against. Most in the PSNI are British, and I cannot see them attacking the British military. So whom could they lash out against to have any impact on an impending handover of governance to Ireland?
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There would have to be a lead-up to events same as what happened in 1912. The loyalist police and various others from the army etc would stand together to resist being dragged into the ROI.
Last edited by Ulsterman; 09-07-2019 at 08:18 AM..
I watched a short preview of a forthcoming tv programme on the of Ulster violence and it showed McGuinness with terrorist sorting out a car for exploding it.
As for the passing mention by bob on military shooting it reminds me how disgusting that clown Blair was freeing Republican bombers from legal action(well into 3 figures) but we are chasing soldiers. Double standards and shows the principle facr the Good Friday stuff was.
The inquiry into Bloody Sunday said McGuinness was carrying a gun but had no prove that he used it. They were not the innocents they said they were. One woman said that there was arms carried by locals on that day.
The IRA works by getting retaliation from the security forces. They shot dead soldier Robert Curtis the first soldier to die in the conflict and kept at that until the army returned it in kind. This was what they wanted so thy could act as defenders of the nationalist people. Up until that the nationalist people were on friendly terms with the army.
There would have to be a lead-up to events same as what happened in 1912. The loyalist police and various others from the army etc would stand together to resist being dragged into the ROI.
I know this is purely speculation, but your view is likely closer to how many Unionists feel in NI.
With that said, in 1912 I'd bet I could have polled the typical staunch Loyalist and say give me the top 10 reasons you would oppose being part of the RoI.
The reply might well be "only the top 10".
I suspect much might have revolved around religion, as Ireland was much more religious and influenced by the Catholic church back then.
However today, I suspect the number of reasons might be limited to 5, if that. I base it on several things, not the least of which Unionists/Loyalists in NI seem more in line with the conservative thinking Catholic church regarding social issues such as abortion, homosexual marriage, etc.
That aside, I have asked you and several others who have skin in the game what would be the main reason/s for fearing a life under Irish government as opposed to British government. Yet few if any reasons has been proffered.
I know this is purely speculation, but your view is likely closer to how many Unionists feel in NI.
With that said, in 1912 I'd bet I could have polled the typical staunch Loyalist and say give me the top 10 reasons you would oppose being part of the RoI.
The reply might well be "only the top 10".
I suspect much might have revolved around religion, as Ireland was much more religious and influenced by the Catholic church back then.
However today, I suspect the number of reasons might be limited to 5, if that. I base it on several things, not the least of which Unionists/Loyalists in NI seem more in line with the conservative thinking Catholic church regarding social issues such as abortion, homosexual marriage, etc.
That aside, I have asked you and several others who have skin in the game what would be the main reason/s for fearing a life under Irish government as opposed to British government. Yet few if any reasons has been proffered.
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Of course that question could be turned around and ask what is the main reason for fearing a life under British/Ulster government.
Its not a matter of life under a British or Ullish government. For Irish republicans/nationalists they just want a united Ireland. In the past many Catholics were contented with things and so much so that the IRA threatened them with 'court martial '
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