Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,706,106 times
Reputation: 10256
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
It is amusing how your "left of center" American politics seems to flavor some of your posting. I only mention this because you have made claims that I use Republican (American version) or conservative talking points. Yet you clearly do it with saying, "ugly American".
While you did not make up the term, it is used by the left to denigrate American exceptionalism with negative connotations.
I don't take it personally, but it is food for thought.
As to this subject, I have studied it for decades with several shelves of books from various perspectives. I certainty don't know it all and am still learning to this day. With that said, NI is unique in many ways, and the long term solutions to their problems is a vexing one.
Exchanging ideas from different perspectives might very well be a better way to understand those impediments that seem to have them stuck in a time warp.
Heck if not for American assistance, the Good Friday Agreement might never have been accomplished. Hence the reason George Mitchell was nominated for the 1998 Nobel Peace prize. He and Bill Clinton were instrumental in getting warring factions to see things outside of their own intransigent and myopic view.
I think we can agree on that can't we?
`
The Ugly American was a term used in the 50s and 60s to refer to US citizens of my parents and grandparents generations who would go to Europe and behave badly. They were known to talk down to the Europeans and tell them how to run their lives as if they were too stupid to run their own lives. It had nothing to do with politics but everything to do with being pompous a$$es. But based on the political views that I've seen you post on the political board, I'm not surprised that you tried to give it a weird political twist.
The Ugly American was a term used in the 50s and 60s to refer to US citizens of my parents and grandparents generations who would go to Europe and behave badly. They were known to talk down to the Europeans and tell them how to run their lives as if they were too stupid to run their own lives. It had nothing to do with politics but everything to do with being pompous a$$es. But based on the political views that I've seen you post on the political board, I'm not surprised that you tried to give it a weird political twist.
Two things.
First, you want to claim you don't care about what the meaning of terms used in the past are in relation to the research (which you yourself prompted me to do) of "Roman Catholic". Once I proved some information that goes against your claim, you don't even acknowledge it.
Yet now you want to hearken back to the past when it suits your purpose. We both know in today's vernacular, the term "ugly American" is used by the left.
Second, why not answer the simple question about whether we agree on Americas involvement helping the UK/Ireland/NI come together to create the GFA.
(I suspect it is easier for you to find disagreement with me than common ground, but this one is a slam-dunk!)
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,706,106 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
Two things.
First, you want to claim you don't care about what the meaning of terms used in the past are in relation to the research (which you yourself prompted me to do) of "Roman Catholic". Once I proved some information that goes against your claim, you don't even acknowledge it.
Yet now you want to hearken back to the past when it suits your purpose. We both know in today's vernacular, the term "ugly American" is used by the left.
Second, why not answer the simple question about whether we agree on Americas involvement helping the UK/Ireland/NI come together to create the GFA.
(I suspect it is easier for you to find disagreement with me than common ground, but this one is a slam-dunk!)
`
The only people who I hear use the term ugly American are my age, and, like me, use it the same way that it always was used, but thanks for trying to twist it. Again, I'm not buying what you're selling.
The Clinton administration was definitely behind the Good Friday Agreement.
I commented on what you found about Roman Catholic.
You can say all you like but I'll believe it when I see it. When he is shot and wounded or worse. Then will I say '' you were right '' Until then I stay unconvinced.
So it has to be all or nothing?
Successful assassination or it is all make believe.
I would like to think that despite what you think of Adams, you would not want to see him killed now that he has become a broker for peace.
I certainly would not wish harm to anyone on either side if they have turned their heart and mind around.
Heck Trump was ready to try and make peace in Afghanistan between the government and the Taliban.
You are in danger Vector1 of slipping into talking cobblers re the Church of Rome which it istelf at times regards itself as that. A while back i informed this thread that there are protestant Churches including a Church of Scotland I was in years ago that when celebrating communion would refer to itself using the word "Catholic"which means universa. In the earkly days of Christianity churches were mainly individual until a group started regarding themeslves as special as well as being paramount. Rome being the old empire capital was very central and that name gradually became part of the title of a very regimental church and everyone had to be part of that in due time or else you were eliminated. Influenced by old Roman imperialism and incorporating that in it's power and authority. Claiming Peter was another load of spiritual nonsense and there is no practical evidence the man was in Rome but that Church was so damn corrupt and powerful could get away with anything. Corrupt Popes a regularity and doing in anyone who had doubts about them being paramount in that control set. Papists were as false on true Christianity.
Thank heavens for folk like martin Luther who was a clergyman and realised that Romanism was a corruption of Christianity and it still is holding i=ont the same stuff as all those centuries ago.
Look RJhowie, I understand you have your issues with the Catholic church and many who are members which is your prerogative. But your bias against them and dare I say bigotry is palpable. That is why I asked if there was some special reason you always said RC instead of just C/Catholic.
Irish Bob gave us a Trimble quote, and even though I still suspected there was something to it, I deferred since Trimble seems like an honorable guy.
However after prodding by Southbound, I went ahead and Googled RC vs. C and low and behold I found the article showing it is used as a slur and/or slight.
Ultimately whether NI remains part of the UK or is reunited with Ireland, the Catholics and Protestants will have to find a path to peaceful co-existence.
Now you Scots over in Glasgow seem to be less violent toward each other, but are still fairly belligerent. Based on what happened just the other week over there, I suspect it would not take too much to cause some mayhem.
The only people who I hear use the term ugly American are my age, and, like me, use it the same way that it always was used, but thanks for trying to twist it. Again, I'm not buying what you're selling.
The Clinton administration was definitely behind the Good Friday Agreement.
I commented on what you found about Roman Catholic.
Well lets just say that we have both heard the term in different context with different people. Neither of us is right or wrong when it comes to the use of "ugly American".
I am glad we agree regarding the Clinton administration and their efforts with the GFA.
Lastly, you say you commented about what I found (after your prompting) on the use of "Roman Catholic". However your reply did not seem to appreciate how what I suspected, was correct;
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
It doesn't matter to me if it was a slur 500 years ago. In the same vein, members of the Religious Society of Friends were once called Quakers as a slur. Now they call themselves Quakers.
Needless to say you were dismissive and deflecting. Clearly it is still being used in a derogatory way over across the pond by some, and that is part of the overall problem.
You are trying to give an impression about how liberal minded broad you are but you are in unfortunate practice typical of many who like to think that. Immediately come up with the waffle about bigotry. I did understand that you were slightly ignorant on the RC labels but I stick by what I said and the RC Church has centuries of bigotry wrapped up in it. In modern times that Pope John paul who was being patted on the back came out with very strong stances of the reformed faith that you and no doubt others either ignored or not aware of.
I am apologising for nothing and I am onto the Church of Rome for good historical reasonand as much entitled to that as on political or other subjects. At the same time I have NOT come out saying I hate individual RC's. The Reformation came out because of not just a passing thing but a Church that was morally and Biblical corrupt. Pope after Pope, corruption etc created the great Reformed Reformation. Even today that Church is still soaked in it and recently a cardinal who had been Pope's treasurer jailed in Australia the occasional diocese including your country going bankrupt due to court cases on corruption and so on. In trying to appear so balanced you do the immediate response on no grounds re the bigotry. You are being self smugged thinking you are being balanced. Because someone who uses their grey cells differently from you out comes that b word which is not very mature nor balanced. OIne can be very strog basically against what a party or church stands for without daftly hating individuals. I have a long history of community work in my city and it involved helping Protestants from my corner and many RC people too and they were glad of that. Never once have I stated here that I hated individuals.
Meanwhile the Republican evils are still at it and the other day having a bomb out in the Creggan district of Londonderry and when the police arrived that was to try and injure or kill them. They got met with dozens of fire bombs thrown at then and such events still happening are from what community? When it comes to bigotry unfortunately your own land in what it does in the world can have that label stuck on it. Try and use sense and that arguing against the corruption and wrongness of Roman history and action is different from the immaturity of coming out with bigoted stuff as you are not being balanced enough. I have little time for the hypocrisy of your country towards many of it's own people or what it does in the wrold that is wrong but does not mean I autoamtically hate all Americans. Luck you!
You are trying to give an impression about how liberal minded broad you are but you are in unfortunate practice typical of many who like to think that. Immediately come up with the waffle about bigotry. I did understand that you were slightly ignorant on the RC labels but I stick by what I said and the RC Church has centuries of bigotry wrapped up in it. In modern times that Pope John paul who was being patted on the back came out with very strong stances of the reformed faith that you and no doubt others either ignored or not aware of.
I am apologising for nothing and I am onto the Church of Rome for good historical reasonand as much entitled to that as on political or other subjects. At the same time I have NOT come out saying I hate individual RC's. The Reformation came out because of not just a passing thing but a Church that was morally and Biblical corrupt. Pope after Pope, corruption etc created the great Reformed Reformation. Even today that Church is still soaked in it and recently a cardinal who had been Pope's treasurer jailed in Australia the occasional diocese including your country going bankrupt due to court cases on corruption and so on. In trying to appear so balanced you do the immediate response on no grounds re the bigotry. You are being self smugged thinking you are being balanced. Because someone who uses their grey cells differently from you out comes that b word which is not very mature nor balanced. OIne can be very strog basically against what a party or church stands for without daftly hating individuals. I have a long history of community work in my city and it involved helping Protestants from my corner and many RC people too and they were glad of that. Never once have I stated here that I hated individuals.
Meanwhile the Republican evils are still at it and the other day having a bomb out in the Creggan district of Londonderry and when the police arrived that was to try and injure or kill them. They got met with dozens of fire bombs thrown at then and such events still happening are from what community? When it comes to bigotry unfortunately your own land in what it does in the world can have that label stuck on it. Try and use sense and that arguing against the corruption and wrongness of Roman history and action is different from the immaturity of coming out with bigoted stuff as you are not being balanced enough. I have little time for the hypocrisy of your country towards many of it's own people or what it does in the wrold that is wrong but does not mean I autoamtically hate all Americans. Luck you!
Well I must be doing something right when you and a few others call me liberal, yet Southbound thinks I am conservative.
Truth be told I have views that can be viewed either way.
Having said that, I am not a PC person, but know bigotry when I see it. Many in NI and your neck of the UK seem to have it instilled in them. I will grant you and others it is not all one sided, frankly far from it. But if you'll don't end the inculcation of the younger generations, it will be a perpetual cycle that will never end.
Pointing out those facts does not make me some PC type who screams ____ism or _____phobe at any little thing.
As to the violence the other night, why is it that you only mention it when it comes from the other side?
I wouldn't expect you or other Unionists to highlight it, but when people like the General, Irish Bob and others post about it, your side remains silent, without any condemnation.
I don't know how many Catholic or Nationalist friends the typical Unionist has, but it is high time to start trying to make positive inroads with each other. I am sure it happens in sports, charity work, emergency medicine, and other normal things people do interacting with their fellow man, without carrying about labels or religious affiliation.
Well I must be doing something right when you and a few others call me liberal, yet Southbound thinks I am conservative.
Truth be told I have views that can be viewed either way.
Having said that, I am not a PC person, but know bigotry when I see it. Many in NI and your neck of the UK seem to have it instilled in them. I will grant you and others it is not all one sided, frankly far from it. But if you'll don't end the inculcation of the younger generations, it will be a perpetual cycle that will never end.
Pointing out those facts does not make me some PC type who screams ____ism or _____phobe at any little thing.
As to the violence the other night, why is it that you only mention it when it comes from the other side?
I wouldn't expect you or other Unionists to highlight it, but when people like the General, Irish Bob and others post about it, your side remains silent, without any condemnation.
I don't know how many Catholic or Nationalist friends the typical Unionist has, but it is high time to start trying to make positive inroads with each other. I am sure it happens in sports, charity work, emergency medicine, and other normal things people do interacting with their fellow man, without carrying about labels or religious affiliation.
`
You toss the word bigot/bigotry around a lot. So were the American company in Ulster bigots when they employed only 10 Protestants in a workforce of 739 ?
I have said many times on here that there was violence on both sides but in recent times there has been very little (if any ) violence from loyalists. Where are the dissidents on the loyalist side throwing petrol bombs etc.
Lord ******** has undertaken some polling in NI, regarding the NI only Backstop, the constitutional status of NI and peoples attitudes towards Brexit.
The results pretty well speak for themselves.
NI as part of the UK is in it's last throes.
I don't know why the forum doesn't let me type his name?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
