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Who cares about the rest of Europe, the PIGS have been swilling round the drain for years.
Feel to argue on other grounds but flushing the economy when it's doing fine as it is isn't a pro of brexit....
This makes no sense.
The EU Germany and France are heading into recession. Their growth is less than the UKs while we're going through Brexit. The PIIGS aren't helping with Italy and Greece threatening the ECB financial constraints.
You want us to jump back aboard the burning crashing aircraft? Sure the UK is currently on fire economically, but by ourselves we're not dragged down by Germany, France, and the PIIGS.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,816 posts, read 34,814,543 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
Is that you Jean Claude Juncker? We the people know what we want, even if much of Parliament doesn't. We want what we voted for, which is to leave the EU.
We also know what the EU want, which is to keep us in the club, and paying our money in. They want to make this so difficult, and with threats, make us give up our efforts to escape the EU clutches.
The EU wants a second vote, in favour of remaining in the EU. But time is running out isn't it? As things stand, we leave at the end of March, with a deal, or without one.
The backstop is not going to happen. It will never get through Parliament. All we get from the EU is negotiations are completed, and there will be no reopening of the agreement.
As Nigel Farage said on Thursday, "Arrogance, intransigence, no shift, and no give from Brussels at all. I hope I'm wrong, but I just think these people, particularly the Junckers and the Barniers, the unelected European Commission, are bigger, stronger, more powerful than national governments and the electorates."
By daring to vote to leave the EU, the underlying dislike for the UK has shown itself in full flower. The making fun of our Prime Minister on social media, and a desire at all costs to punish us, and make an example for any one else daring to even think of leaving the EU.
We have to get out now, there is no going back. How that comes about is really out of our hands now. The backstop ensures if it comes into play, we will remain playthings of the EU, unable to truly go out, and make our way in the world. We just can't accept it, and the EU say it is non negotiable. So that's that isn't it? We will leave with a hard Brexit, damaging us, and Europe as well. Maybe there will be some movement as the end of March approaches. Who knows? I sure don't.
I'm going to guess that all retailers are probably starting to stock up their distribution centers and warehouses now, with the intention of keeping them packed full. With the exception of perishables, prices should be stable for a few months. It doesn't hurt that Aldi & Lidl have sourced some grocery products for the US in Canada. You might start seeing more Canadian products in Aldi, Lidl, and Asda.
Not much else he can say Dave ? You aren’t seeing the bigger picture or seeing the damage that’s already beggining.
I know very well your reasons for your anti EU stance living where you do and seeing the place change over your lifetime but I can guarantee you nothing would change should your wish come true and the UK leaves, the damage is done and it’s not going to improve unfortunately and I don’t believe your particular issues are anything to do with the EU in the first place.
You and others here though keep repeating the same old rubbish about how badly the Uk’s being treated when it couldn’t be further from the truth.
The UK know the rules of being in the EU to enjoy its benefits and are now the ones who want to leave which is fine, what is not fine is wanting to keep many of those benefits without following the rules the other states have to follow, you and others here keep saying the EU are being mean or treating the Uk badly when it is the UK that can’t see the facts before them, there is nothing to negotiate, stay in or leave, you voted to leave but can’t because it will ruin the country, Mays half way deal will damage the country whilst giving no New freedoms
Article 50 will be announced in the next couple of weeks and you will still be very much in the UK come the beginning of April, I just hope the big companies hang around long enough not to inflict irreparable damage to the Uk’s workforce.
A vote on the way forward will be called and the UK will vote to stay, it doesn’t really have a choice given the options.
I can’t remember a time in my life when the Uk had such a pathetic bunch in parliament, with no real leadership or common sense to be seen anywhere.
the last paragraph is so true, T.May has made so many u turns she must be quite dizzy.
however with less than 2 months to go and without a deal in sight no deal will be the only option on the table, the EU wont reopen negotiations and wont extend article 50 without a deal.
even big business is beginning to realise this at last and is making no deal preparations.
its all in the hands of the politicians now there is nothing we can do about it, knowing the type of MP's we have now I am sure they will mess it up in some way and probably not to the wishes of either side, no one whatever their votes likes May's deal but she keeps pushing it, so we may end up with one foot in and one foot out, neither in nor out of the EU, in which case neither side will be satisfied.
Most members of Parliament don't want us to leave the EU at all. They wish David Cameron had never existed....... The Tories made a massive mistake offering a referendum on EU membership. By doing this, with no first past the post nonsense like we have in General Elections, with every vote counting, they got the shock of their lives........ the true opinion of the British people on the EU.
Many in Parliament never accepted the result of the vote, and have been working to undermine it ever since. Nonsense like pushing for a 'people's vote', when that's exactly what we had in 2016. Tory party grandee's like Michael Heseltine, sniffing what do the public know?
He, and his ilk have no idea what life is like for a typical ordinary citizen today. They live in their huge homes in the countryside, and do a bit of shooting at the weekends. Life is as it always has been for his type. But, for ordinary folks life has been getting harder for decades. The slide started in the 70s really, and just got worse. Then we got the shock and awe of Thatcher in the 80s. She decimated communities, especially in the north of England.
For some, life has always been good, and the connected, and intelligent found their way forward, and did just fine. For many, their communities struggled to recover from Thatcher's policies, and many just slipped into either constant unemployment, or poor job security at best. Thatcher sold off much of the council housing stock, and buying a house also became harder, with ever rising prices. The improving standards of living for the ordinary working class begun in the 50s, accelerating throughout the 60s, stuttering in the 70s, hit the buffers in the 80s, and never really recovered for many. Some of the former working class sank into depravity, drug and alcohol abuse, and yes, despair.
Then, Tony Blair opened the doors to immigration from the newly expanded EU. 10,000 from Poland alone were expected. Over 800,000 came. Hard working people in the main, eager to work hard for minimum wage, and say thank you also. If the remnants of the working class thought it was hard before, it got harder. Lots of competition for minimum wage jobs, and pressure on housing, causing ever increasing rents. Many giving up the idea of ever owning a home of their own, a thing their parents had taken for granted.
The rise of UKIP began. In the 2014 European parliament election, it won 24 seats. By the time of the 2015 General Election, it gained a stunning 12% of the vote, with only one MP to show for such a massive increase in its voter base. The Tory answer to the fear of losing votes to UKIP was a promised vote on EU membership. This galvanised some who had not bothered voting for sometimes decades. At the 2016 EU vote, the turnout was over 72%, which stunned politicians of all parties.
They are very aware of anger bubbling away under the surface in many communities. A feeling nobody gives a damn for them, and many politicians even looking down on them as dirt on their shoes. Even the Labour party, once built as a foundation stone of the working class, now has members, and even MPs who sneer at the working class. Unlike many Labour MPs of the past, many of the present generation have never had a real job in their lives. The likes of Dennis Skinner, who worked as a coal miner for 20 years, are pretty thin on the ground.
So, many especially Labour MPs, know they have many voters in their constituencies, who voted to leave the EU. This tempers their public comments on the vote, even though many of them are working quietly to thwart the result of the Brexit vote. Prudently, they as political creatures, want to keep their cosy jobs in Parliament, and all the perks coming from that. So, many shout for another vote, so the public can reconsider, and maybe vote to remain in the EU, now they know more about the consequences of their vote in 2016. Even dress it up as a 'People's Vote.'
Politicians like Theresa May fear a violent public reaction from another vote. It would be a campaign over many weeks, with perhaps growing public anger from those told this was a once in a lifetime vote, needing much consideration. A feeling that democracy is being undermined by those determined to keep us voting, until we vote the way 'they' want. The EU want this, and are hoping even now, this can come to pass. They are used to forcing folks to vote more than once, until they do as they are told. It's worked before, why not again?
The difference is, this time we have watched them in action before the vote and after. The sheer arrogance of the likes of Juncker and Tusk has been breathtaking. The laughter behind the hands at our Prime Minister, insulting. The constant threats of how we will regret leaving the EU, and the consequences of doing so. An obvious desire to punish, and teach a lesson.
This is why there is no going back now. This damage can never be repaired. Their true opinion of us revealed for all to see. Knowledge that all they want from us is money, and obedience. They don't care about the constant immigration to our small island, and the results of that. Remaining in the EU would cause public anger, and maybe even the growth of a new political party. One that feeds off that anger, and thwarting of the democratic vote. This is a can of worms nobody wants to see opened.
Most members of Parliament don't want us to leave the EU at all. They wish David Cameron had never existed....... The Tories made a massive mistake offering a referendum on EU membership. By doing this, with no first past the post nonsense like we have in General Elections, with every vote counting, they got the shock of their lives........ the true opinion of the British people on the EU.
Many in Parliament never accepted the result of the vote, and have been working to undermine it ever since. Nonsense like pushing for a 'people's vote', when that's exactly what we had in 2016. Tory party grandee's like Michael Heseltine, sniffing what do the public know?
He, and his ilk have no idea what life is like for a typical ordinary citizen today. They live in their huge homes in the countryside, and do a bit of shooting at the weekends. Life is as it always has been for his type. But, for ordinary folks life has been getting harder for decades. The slide started in the 70s really, and just got worse. Then we got the shock and awe of Thatcher in the 80s. She decimated communities, especially in the north of England.
For some, life has always been good, and the connected, and intelligent found their way forward, and did just fine. For many, their communities struggled to recover from Thatcher's policies, and many just slipped into either constant unemployment, or poor job security at best. Thatcher sold off much of the council housing stock, and buying a house also became harder, with ever rising prices. The improving standards of living for the ordinary working class begun in the 50s, accelerating throughout the 60s, stuttering in the 70s, hit the buffers in the 80s, and never really recovered for many. Some of the former working class sank into depravity, drug and alcohol abuse, and yes, despair.
Then, Tony Blair opened the doors to immigration from the newly expanded EU. 10,000 from Poland alone were expected. Over 800,000 came. Hard working people in the main, eager to work hard for minimum wage, and say thank you also. If the remnants of the working class thought it was hard before, it got harder. Lots of competition for minimum wage jobs, and pressure on housing, causing ever increasing rents. Many giving up the idea of ever owning a home of their own, a thing their parents had taken for granted.
The rise of UKIP began. In the 2014 European parliament election, it won 24 seats. By the time of the 2015 General Election, it gained a stunning 12% of the vote, with only one MP to show for such a massive increase in its voter base. The Tory answer to the fear of losing votes to UKIP was a promised vote on EU membership. This galvanised some who had not bothered voting for sometimes decades. At the 2016 EU vote, the turnout was over 72%, which stunned politicians of all parties.
They are very aware of anger bubbling away under the surface in many communities. A feeling nobody gives a damn for them, and many politicians even looking down on them as dirt on their shoes. Even the Labour party, once built as a foundation stone of the working class, now has members, and even MPs who sneer at the working class. Unlike many Labour MPs of the past, many of the present generation have never had a real job in their lives. The likes of Dennis Skinner, who worked as a coal miner for 20 years, are pretty thin on the ground.
So, many especially Labour MPs, know they have many voters in their constituencies, who voted to leave the EU. This tempers their public comments on the vote, even though many of them are working quietly to thwart the result of the Brexit vote. Prudently, they as political creatures, want to keep their cosy jobs in Parliament, and all the perks coming from that. So, many shout for another vote, so the public can reconsider, and maybe vote to remain in the EU, now they know more about the consequences of their vote in 2016. Even dress it up as a 'People's Vote.'
Politicians like Theresa May fear a violent public reaction from another vote. It would be a campaign over many weeks, with perhaps growing public anger from those told this was a once in a lifetime vote, needing much consideration. A feeling that democracy is being undermined by those determined to keep us voting, until we vote the way 'they' want. The EU want this, and are hoping even now, this can come to pass. They are used to forcing folks to vote more than once, until they do as they are told. It's worked before, why not again?
The difference is, this time we have watched them in action before the vote and after. The sheer arrogance of the likes of Juncker and Tusk has been breathtaking. The laughter behind the hands at our Prime Minister, insulting. The constant threats of how we will regret leaving the EU, and the consequences of doing so. An obvious desire to punish, and teach a lesson.
This is why there is no going back now. This damage can never be repaired. Their true opinion of us revealed for all to see. Knowledge that all they want from us is money, and obedience. They don't care about the constant immigration to our small island, and the results of that. Remaining in the EU would cause public anger, and maybe even the growth of a new political party. One that feeds off that anger, and thwarting of the democratic vote. This is a can of worms nobody wants to see opened.
You speak of the negative effects brought about by thatcher, you do realise that the elite brexiteers (Rees mogg etc, murdoch press) are arch thatcherites?
You speak of the negative effects brought about by thatcher, you do realise that the elite brexiteers (Rees mogg etc, murdoch press) are arch thatcherites?
Yes I do. I have no love for the Tories. The trouble is, they're the only game in town.
Not much else he can say Dave ? You aren’t seeing the bigger picture or seeing the damage that’s already beggining.
The UK know the rules of being in the EU to enjoy its benefits and are now the ones who want to leave which is fine, what is not fine is wanting to keep many of those benefits without following the rules the other states have to follow, you and others here keep saying the EU are being mean or treating the Uk badly when it is the UK that can’t see the facts before them, there is nothing to negotiate, stay in or leave, you voted to leave but can’t because it will ruin the country, Mays half way deal will damage the country whilst giving no New freedoms
I can’t remember a time in my life when the Uk had such a pathetic bunch in parliament, with no real leadership or common sense to be seen anywhere.
I don't care about the damage leaving the EU will cause us. It is up to them how much damage they care to dish out, and receive back from us in retaliation. It could get real nasty. There is no going back now, too much has been said and done.
The EU trades with many non EU countries like the USA and Canada. That's what we want long term also. The EU wants to hurt us as a warning to others thinking similar thoughts about leaving. That's the real problem here, a desire to inflict pain on us.
You get no argument from me on pathetic politicians.
Actually based on Dave's post you're referring to, I'd say he's totally following the news.
In precis
1) The EU want a divorce settlement (Friday Daily Express last week)
2) The EU want a second referendum (since the first one)
3) The backstop isn't going to happen (with this government, all this year)
4) What Nige said Thursday
5) That the EU have been trying to belittle the UK at every opportunity
6) That there is no real going back (which is an evaluation and pretty accurate).
So what's wrong or not in the news?
There's no point arguing, you've already filled your mind with twaddle and made it dosent matter what anyone else says.
Like no. 6 the EU courts have already said the UK can cancel article 50 at any point but whatever.
if they cancel article 50 therefore cancelling Brexit there will be rioting in the streets.
but as I suspect you don't live in the UK so it wont bother you.
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The Tories made a massive mistake offering a referendum on EU membership. By doing this, with no first past the post nonsense like we have in General Elections, with every vote counting, they got the shock of their lives........ the true opinion of the British people on the EU.
