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To be fair EU can cope without USA. Not this minute I'll grant you but if that were the direction of travel I am pretty sure the EU could be a powerful military force if the US pulled out of Nato. They would be forced to.
Sure they could, Germany alone posed an imminent threat. However consider the effects of the EU economies, of increasing defense spending not just 2% to meet NATO commitments, but enough to present enough of a defensive threat to any enemies (which then would include the US). Current US spending is projected at $582,000,000,000 (plus change), the EU combined is around $140,000,000,000 plus change (removing the UK, since it won't be in the EU). To close the gap the EU would have to increase spending by in excess of 4 times just to keep pace with the US on technology and forces, to close the gap it would need to increase spending significantly higher perhaps 8-10 times higher. In such a situation, exactly how would the EU manage this increase in spending?
I am with ya. I look to none war as a starting point though lol. But yeah I get you need a strong military. And I think the EU would achieve that if the US pulled out of Nato (which I don't think they will ever do even with Trump at the helm). I am not against a European army. Obviously, England wouldn't have any part in it which is fine and their choice but yeah I don't see why not. If Nato was disbanded and we needed to counter the threat from Putin we would be mad not to. And remember the US aren't our enemy lol. We don't need to spend anywhere near US spending. Maybe match Russia spending. which is easily achievable
Russia manages to provoke the US nearly everyday and look at how much less they spend.
Again Brexiteers aren't covering themselves in glory in security matters
. To close the gap the EU would have to increase spending by in excess of 4 times just to keep pace with the US on technology and forces, to close the gap it would need to increase spending significantly higher perhaps 8-10 times higher. In such a situation, exactly how would the EU manage this increase in spending?
You are discussing a situation that is very hypothetical. Would an isolationist USA-on the other side of an ocean-really be a threat to the EU?
Another hypothetical-would the USA be threatened by an EU arms build up? Defenses against Russia would emphasize the defeat of an army crossing EU borders. Think infantry, anti-tank weapons, and aircraft for close air support. Useful for defense, but not adequate for power projection far beyond Europe.
You are discussing a situation that is very hypothetical. Would an isolationist USA-on the other side of an ocean-really be a threat to the EU?
right... when the US pulls out, the largest threat in europe would be the one with the largest army... Germany
germans don't have a good war history in europe when they were the largest power
think US worked well because as the largest army, we were still separated by an ocean, you can't say the same if everyone is on the same continent
EU wouldn't have a unified "build up", they are a coalition army, they aren't unified under a single flag like the US if it came down to EU vs US, governance/bureaucracy would get in the way of moving that large a force in the EU, the UN has that problem as is
Spain March 11, 2004
Netherlands November 2, 2004
United Kingdom July 7, 2005
United Kingdom June 30, 2007
Sweden December 11, 2010
Germany March 2, 2011
Bosnia and Herzegovina October 28, 2011
France March 20, 2012
Bulgaria July 18, 2012
United Kingdom May 22, 2013
France May 25, 2013
Belgium May 24, 2014
France December 20, 2014
France December 21
France January 7–9
France January 9, 2015
Denmark February 14–15
Bosnia and Herzegovina April 27, 2015
France June 26, 2015
France August 21, 2015
Germany September 17, 2015
France November 13, 2015
Bosnia and Herzegovina November 18, 2015
France January 7, 2016
France January 11, 2016
Belgium March 22, 2016
France July 14, 2016
Germany July 18, 2016
Germany July 24, 2016
France July 26, 2016
Germany December 19, 2016
United Kingdom March 3, 2017
All these arguments about being worse off don not was when coming from Brexiteers now. Height of hypocrisy.
1. You do realise that the UK is a NET contributor to EU funding by quite a large margin? Meaning that the UK subsidises the rest of the EU whereas other countries receive our taxpayers money.
2. This means we can easily fill the void of funding available ourselves with some left over...the article says, “Our research income will of course fall significantly after we have left the EU unless a Brexit government guarantees to cover the shortfall,” Lord Patten said. - This is something that can be done as we will now have control of that money that goes into the EU purse.
3. Your claim at hypocrisy is not parallel to the reality. You can't compare a subsidised nation (Scotland) to major net contributor to the EU (UK). Your analogy fails.
4. The UK has 5 of the top 20 ranked universities in the world, the EU has none!! The UK is second only to the USA in top ranked universities and there are many scientific research partnerships we can explore with the US. We will more than survive in this field.
Last edited by Pueblofuerte; 03-30-2017 at 05:06 PM..
Did you read the article? And having good universities is all well and good but I would rather have a system like Finland who has the best education in the world. How many of us go to Oxford or St Andrew? Hardly any of us.
The UK will be better of in the long run...No worries my friends
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