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You think televising courtrooms has been brought in just for this! I mean SERIOUSLY!
Don't be daft.
I think the timing was very convenient. It was quite a coincidence that a 95 year old ban on cameras in UK courts was rescinded just in time for this case. That is a long time, almost a century.
It's caught international attention which is why it's being televised much the same as the OJ Simpson trial when a celebrity was charged with murdering his wife.
Traffic deaths and murders happen all the time 24/7 but when it's John Doe/ Jane Doe nobody cares
The real issue I am bringing up is unlike most other accidents where often the news would show a diagram of how the accident occurred, all I can see from the media is an american drove wrong way and motorcyclist died thats it, no farther details been released. At least based on what I can find in the US and on the Internet. Absolutey No further details were ever released. I thought in UK under English common laws one is innocent until proven guilty. I searched online everywhere but can find absolutely zero details of how the crash occurred. I.e one in the thread raised the issue whether Anne's phone records showed texting and driving but that was quickly dismissed. We cannot always trust what the media tells us as they often don't tell the whole story.
Wrong way crashes when they happen usually is caused by someone its highly intoxicated or on drugs, likely suicidal and entered a motorway/controlled access high speed road and likely aimed for vehicles coming towards it. Which would have less than a second before its onto them. Its highly unlikely in other cases both parties were so obvious or assert they are dead right that they run right into each other especially if riding a motorcycle. Nicknamed "He had the right of way" on gravestone.
If we can only see a map or diagram of how the crash had occurred.
You can see the crash spot on Google maps. It's on a quiet country road, the B4031. You can exit the base on Google Maps using Street View and turn left just as Anne Sacoolas did on that night. She turned left from the base entrance onto the B4031 and positioned herself in the right lane, which is a mistake that newly arrived drivers can make when they come from a country where they are habituated to driving on the right. There was no traffic light at the entrance to the base or other vehicles on the road to act as external cues to keep left.
The unfortunate thing is that the crash occurred in a spot where there is a noticeable rise in the road in both directions. There's also a gentle bend in the road, and tall trees on the roadside. You cannot see approaching vehicles. The light was not great because it was about 8:00pm on a summer evening.
Neither driver could see the other until it was too late for them to avoid collision. That's how it happened. Anne Sacoolas was absolutely in the wrong for driving on the right.
In Google Maps Street View, you'll see roadside signs reminding drivers to keep left. They weren't there in August 2019. You can see the spot where Harry landed when he was knocked off his bike. There's a memorial.
Heres's a pic from Street View from the point of view of Anne Sacoolas approaching the crash spot, just a few seconds away from the base: https://goo.gl/maps/sQ2nbHSUUSzbTqXt6
The real issue I am bringing up is unlike most other accidents where often the news would show a diagram of how the accident occurred, all I can see from the media is an american drove wrong way and motorcyclist died thats it, no farther details been released. At least based on what I can find in the US and on the Internet. Absolutey No further details were ever released. I thought in UK under English common laws one is innocent until proven guilty. I searched online everywhere but can find absolutely zero details of how the crash occurred. I.e one in the thread raised the issue whether Anne's phone records showed texting and driving but that was quickly dismissed. We cannot always trust what the media tells us as they often don't tell the whole story.
Wrong way crashes when they happen usually is caused by someone its highly intoxicated or on drugs, likely suicidal and entered a motorway/controlled access high speed road and likely aimed for vehicles coming towards it. Which would have less than a second before its onto them. Its highly unlikely in other cases both parties were so obvious or assert they are dead right that they run right into each other especially if riding a motorcycle. Nicknamed "He had the right of way" on gravestone.
If we can only see a map or diagram of how the crash had occurred.
You are right, the news media hasn't reported on the details of the crash. They don't care about diagrams. They are just on a witch hunt. She is guilty. That's all they care about.
Here is my best understanding of how the crash occurred. Since the media hasn't reported it. This is all that I can figure out. I left the arrow lane markings visible. But the straight arrows on the pavement / tarmac were not there at the time of the crash.
It's caught international attention which is why it's being televised much the same as the OJ Simpson trial when a celebrity was charged with murdering his wife.
Traffic deaths and murders happen all the time 24/7 but when it's John Doe/ Jane Doe nobody cares
The only bit that is televised is the sentencing, and this is due to television news contacting the Judge, and asking that it be televised. In this case the judge has permitted the sentencing to be televised.
The real issue I am bringing up is unlike most other accidents where often the news would show a diagram of how the accident occurred, all I can see from the media is an american drove wrong way and motorcyclist died thats it, no farther details been released. At least based on what I can find in the US and on the Internet. Absolutey No further details were ever released. I thought in UK under English common laws one is innocent until proven guilty. I searched online everywhere but can find absolutely zero details of how the crash occurred. I.e one in the thread raised the issue whether Anne's phone records showed texting and driving but that was quickly dismissed. We cannot always trust what the media tells us as they often don't tell the whole story.
Wrong way crashes when they happen usually is caused by someone its highly intoxicated or on drugs, likely suicidal and entered a motorway/controlled access high speed road and likely aimed for vehicles coming towards it. Which would have less than a second before its onto them. Its highly unlikely in other cases both parties were so obvious or assert they are dead right that they run right into each other especially if riding a motorcycle. Nicknamed "He had the right of way" on gravestone.
If we can only see a map or diagram of how the crash had occurred.
Sacoolas has already pleaded guilty, and nothing has been released due to Sub judice laws, as per the Contempt of Court Laws.
The Judge will weigh up and evaluate the aggravating and mitigating circumstances in her summing up of the case, as part of the televised sentencing.
In terms of the UK, when you visit you adhere to our laws, and when you state that immunity will be waived in relation to serious incidents off base, you should honour what you promised.
The recent Matthew Day case clearly demonstrated the limits of US jurisdiction in relation to the 1952 Visiting Forces Act, and in terms of the Harry Dunn case, the UK was reluctant to allow the US immunity in relation to a rural US spy base, some 70 miles from London.
The UK did eventually allow the US to have immunity, on the premise that any immunity would be waived in relation to serious off base incidents.
The US wanted immunity for it's controversial base, due to it being on foreign soil and in order that US personnel are not constrained or held to account by international laws, not that the US even adhered to most international laws in the first place.
Last edited by Brave New World; 12-03-2022 at 04:49 AM..
You are right, the news media hasn't reported on the details of the crash. They don't care about diagrams. They are just on a witch hunt. She is guilty. That's all they care about.
Here is my best understanding of how the crash occurred. Since the media hasn't reported it. This is all that I can figure out. I left the arrow lane markings visible. But the straight arrows on the pavement / tarmac were not there at the time of the crash.
Very true about the media's bias one sided report.
Interesting how things in the UK law works, the truth would forever be kept secret swept under a rug, nothing been released, In the US and elsewhere there is usually a public report on what lead to the incident i.e of signs of braking or swerving or skid marks on the road nor a detailed toxicology test of both drivers. As in why they couldn't have avoided the crash and whether anyone tried any atempt to avoid a crash or not. Did one from the US swerve to the right while the other swerve to the left instinctively? No pictures of the scene at all how the vehicles end up. How fast were either vehicle traveling? Not to paint everyone in one brush but sport bikers often do ride very fast(thats the main purpose of getting one), its not known how fast relavant to the speed limit though. I heard many critise that speed limits are often too high for conditions in many narrow UK roads. I assume there was zero other traffic on that road thats why she didn't realize driving the wrong way especially with no arrows, no witness, and no cctv. The UK is aware that their convention is different from the the continent thus they normally have arrows and look left look right on pedestrian crossings. The road is open to the public(Which I heard UK is like the US where anything out in public is fair game for pictures to be taken and released) I would be surprised though no one took pictures or videos of the aftermath.
Another cause of wrong way crashes happen when someone is despirate to outrun the police but that is not the case here. It appears the Chinese fighter jet vs US spyplane incident has better coverage of what happened. Which the young Chinese fighter jet pilot was violating safe airspace rules to scare the spyplane away from Chinese airspace. Of course the US was blamed soley for flying into the airspace.
Sometimes people can be pressured into pleading guilty/no contest or making a confession when they are not though based on the whole situation which they themselves may be confused or gaslighted on. I personally experienced people in the US who were wrongly blamed for causing an accident by the police until half a year later when the other party was found fully at fault after they appealed the decision. They were literally mad at themselves until then. Its true that the US had helped people escape after vehicle manslaughter or fatal accidents in other countries. Especially the Baja 1000 off road race where they literally fly them to the US.
I am sure people had encountered wrong way drivers from time to time in any country, an easy question to ask is what would one do if they encounter a driver coming the wrong way?
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 12-03-2022 at 01:50 PM..
Very true about the media's bias one sided report.
Interesting how things in the UK law works, the truth would forever be kept secret swept under a rug, nothing been released, In the US and elsewhere there is usually a public report on what lead to the incident i.e of signs of braking or swerving or skid marks on the road nor a detailed toxicology test of both drivers. As in why they couldn't have avoided the crash and whether anyone tried any atempt to avoid a crash or not. Did one from the US swerve to the right while the other swerve to the left instinctively? No pictures of the scene at all how the vehicles end up. How fast were either vehicle traveling? Not to paint everyone in one brush but sport bikers often do ride very fast(thats the main purpose of getting one), its not known how fast relavant to the speed limit though. I heard many critise that speed limits are often too high for conditions in many narrow UK roads. I assume there was zero other traffic on that road thats why she didn't realize driving the wrong way especially with no arrows, no witness, and no cctv. The UK is aware that their convention is different from the the continent thus they normally have arrows and look left look right on pedestrian crossings. The road is open to the public(Which I heard UK is like the US where anything out in public is fair game for pictures to be taken and released) I would be surprised though no one took pictures or videos of the aftermath.
Another cause of wrong way crashes happen when someone is despirate to outrun the police but that is not the case here. It appears the Chinese fighter jet vs US spyplane incident has better coverage of what happened. Which the young Chinese fighter jet pilot was violating safe airspace rules to scare the spyplane away from Chinese airspace. Of course the US was blamed soley for flying into the airspace.
Sometimes people can be pressured into pleading guilty/no contest or making a confession when they are not though based on the whole situation which they themselves may be confused or gaslighted on. I personally experienced people in the US who were wrongly blamed for causing an accident by the police until half a year later when the other party was found fully at fault after they appealed the decision. They were literally mad at themselves until then. Its true that the US had helped people escape after vehicle manslaughter or fatal accidents in other countries. Especially the Baja 1000 off road race where they literally fly them to the US.
I am sure people had encountered wrong way drivers from time to time in any country, an easy question to ask is what would one do if they encounter a driver coming the wrong way?
The police fully investigated the case, before passing it on to the Crown Prosecution Service, who evaluated the evidence and decided that the most serious charge should apply based on the evidence.
The evidence has not been released, as it may have an undue influence on the right to a fair trial, and the media has to be careful in relation to Sub judice laws.
The case happened on British soil, and is therefore subject to British laws, and in terms of immunity, the US had promised to waive it, in relation to serious incidents off base at Croughton.
Are some Americans that arrogant that they believe that foreign laws don't apply to them, and they can simply renege on agreements.
The police fully investigated the case, before passing it on to the Crown Prosecution Service, who evaluated the evidence and decided that the most serious charge should apply based on the evidence.
The evidence has not been released, as it may have an undue influence on the right to a fair trial, and the media has to be careful in relation to Sub judice laws.
The case happened on British soil, and is therefore subject to British laws, and in terms of immunity, the US had promised to waive it, in relation to serious incidents off base at Croughton.
Are some Americans that arrogant that they believe that foreign laws don't apply to them, and they can simply renege on agreements.
That makes no sense. The trial is over. She has been found guilty. That evidence can't influence a trial that is over. The rest of your post is irrelevant and disingenuous.
But I get where you are coming from. You hate Americans and that is your agenda. Got it.
That makes no sense. The trial is over. She has been found guilty. That evidence can't influence a trial that is over. The rest of your post is irrelevant and disingenuous.
But I get where you are coming from. You hate Americans and that is your agenda. Got it.
I don't think supporting a trial in relation to a British citizen who was killed by an American citizen has anything to do with hating Americans, and I don't hate Americans, I just don't agree with a lot of US foreign policy, and not waiving immunity in relation to Sacoolas is part of this.
As for the evidence, the Judge will draw upon this, in relation to her summing up, and in relation to aggravating and mitigating circumstances, and everything will then be released, as this is how we do things in this country.
If a British citizen were to kill another British citizen by driving on the wrong side of the road, then exactly the same thing would happen, and if Sacoolas had not fled the country this would all have been done and dusted, and would not have caused any controversy.
The case is controversial and has caused a lot of anger, not because of the incident itself, but because of the immunity in relation to a controversial US spy base.
This has posed questions in relation to why Britain has afforded such immunity to a foreign power in the first place, despite having severe reservations about doing so, as well as questions in relation to immunity laws, as well as much criticised and controversial US/UK extradition arrangements.
The UK has now torn up the original Croughton agreement, and replaced it with another agreement, that clearly states that US personnel and their dependants have no immunity whatsoever off base in relation to Croughton.
The Sacoolas sentencing will also be televised, and broadcast on news channels across the UK, and I would not be surprised if it is made in to a television documentary or television drama.
Last edited by Brave New World; 12-04-2022 at 07:10 AM..
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