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I know that lots of Vermonters are ex-New Yorkers. I have been told that a lot of people from NYC moved up after 9/11. I wanted to move to New England since I was a child. I have lived in Rhode Island, but only because I had friends there.
My question is: What do New Yorkers miss when they move to Vermont?
Moving is such a big step and I want to minimize the chances of making a mistake.
Also, what do New Yorkers decidedly not miss?
I know I can't generalize, because rural, town and city living in Vermont are different. Basically, I am interested in Brattleboro, but all comments are welcome.
I know I will miss the ocean and the racial and cultural diversity. I will miss hearing all the languages. I will miss the presence of world class dance and theater, although I don't go to them. I have an excellent veterinarian and I will miss him. I will miss Central Park. I will decidedly not miss the congestion, the rudeness, the awareness that, because of the congestion, I probably could not evacuate in the event of a disaster, such as a coastal storm. (My neighborhood is subject to evacuation in the event of a category 3 or higher hurricane.) And now, subway rides always involve awareness of possible terrorism. I haven't ridden the Staten Island Ferry for a while, but I'm sure the same things holds there. I will not miss the polluted air and water. I will not miss kayaking on Jamaica Bay and learning that the bay is contaminated with raw sewage. I will not miss the ugliness of urban blight, the smell of urine in apartment elevators and graffitti on apartment hall walls.
I both will and will not miss my anonymity in New York. In a small town, everyone knows you. That is great in terms of a sense of community, but it can be intrusive.
I am nourished by visual beauty, such as I have found in Vermont and New Hampshire. And I love the Vermont attitude. I love the New York attitude too, but I need a change from the negative aspects of it.
As my vet said, there is no place like New York. I agree. I am a dyed-in-the-wool New Yorker, in many ways. But I want to move to Vermont. I just don't want to feel dislocated and regret the move.
I absolutely love your post. You have outlined the things I both miss and not miss about New York when moving to the midwest. I have greatly missed every single thing you said you will miss. Burlington VT is one of the places I am considering as my home and I appreciate your post. This thread has helped me as well.
I also miss the food in New York. Oh God, do I miss the food! I just can't get any authentic ethnic food at all where I live. The Pizza, the chinese food, etc. is just horrible outside of New York. It took me two years before I would choke down a concoction from Pizza Hut and Taco Bell? I won't even bother to get into that one.
There are no decent bakeries where I live and I miss being able to run down and get fresh baked goods (breads, muffins, etc.). All of the bakeries here are located in supermarkets that get all of their stuff shipped frozen!! They don't bake cakes here, they just decorate the ones that are shipped in frozen!
I haven't had a decent bagel since I left New York. I miss the carts on the streets where you can just pick up a frank or a pretzel on the way to your destination without missing a beat...I both miss and DON'T miss the fast pace. Sometimes the slow pace here is a refreshing change, sometimes it drives me crazy. When people see me going anywhere on foot, they stare at me as if I'm an alien and laugh at me as they drive by. In New York, it's the norm. I do miss that.
My heart aches at Christmas time if I am not in New York. There is absolutely nothing like it in the entire country (I've lived in many US towns and cities). New York at Christmas time is breathtaking. New Year's Eve at Time Square is amazing! Ugh, I am getting home sick just thinking about it. I have to make it to New York every year for the Holiday season because no other place can hold a candle to it in my opinion.
Of course I don't miss the danger or the smell of urine, but I will concentrate on the positive. what I DO miss the absolute most is the way New Yorkers think. It's hard to find stimulating conversation here where I live and very difficult to find people to relate to because they just don't think the way we do. It's so hard for people to understand where I am coming from sometimes (unless they are also from new york) because they do things differently out here.
~Anyway, I know you said you wanted to hear from Vermonters and I apologize for intruding on your thread, but I just had to get that off my chest.
Last edited by sevdie; 01-13-2007 at 06:16 AM..
Reason: I agree with you 100%
1. Reasonable pay. Vermont's cost of living is completely out-of-whack with its cost of living. Nobody but nobody pays. Move to Vermont to retire if you have lots of money or are making lots of money.
2. Late night food. Dennys is about it.
3. Museums. Not entirely fair to Vermont as no place in North America can duplicate NYC's museum experience, but culture goes with it. You can't just decide to go do something new every night. You run out of things very quickly before the next cultural event comes along.
4. Milder winters. Vermont winters are tough. Winter comes faster and stays longer.
5. Gay bars. Despite its image, there isn't a single one in Burlington.
6. Ease of transportation. You must have a car to get around unless you're a penniless student and even they need cars. Unless you live right in downtown Burlington near CityMarket, you need a car. Scooters are cute for about 5 months, then you need a car. Want to head to any place you have to fly to? Need to get on a puddle jumper plane and fly to a connecting city or drive to Boston or Montreal or Albany. It takes effort.
7. Ethnic diversity. Vermont is one of the whitest states there are. Not making a judgement call about that, but you won't find a Little Anything in Burlington. It's so white that my sister took a college class on ethnic diversity where they actually had a black person come in and talk about being black because so few students had any interaction with black people before. It may sound ridiculous but it's true.
8. Shopping. Burlington has wonderful shops, creative people, and good taste, but it doesn't have a Saks or a J. Press or Prada. Again, no place can match New York for shopping, but it is something to miss.
9. Late night life. Unless you're a student, there isn't much nightlife. People actually do go to bed in Vermont.
Disclaimer: I love both places very much and wish I could combine the best of both of them.
I can relate to #9 so much. The town I live in now closes down at 9 O'Clock. It took some getting used to. I actually couldn't sleep for a long time because it was too quiet. #7 makes me laugh but I believe you because similar situations occur here in Kansas too. I think living here has softened the blow of culture shock for me when I do relocate to new England. Gay bars and Comedy clubs are non existent out here. They just don't know what they're missing!
Arel,
you make an excellent point about the competition of business. That is why I am in favor of it. When you are the only game in town, and give poor service or are rude, I'm stuck with you because there is no place else, but competition keeps everyone on their toes. Good customer servcie is important to me and I like the option of taking my business some place else if I am not satisfied. Good point.
People are not unfriendly here, but they do seem impersonal and guarded. I noticed the friendliness of people in Brattleboro. New York can be quite lonely for some people, in spite of the large number of people and the lots of things to do. You can go to an event, even an event at a park, and no one talks to you beyond pleasantries.
People from New York City are impersonal/guarded because they have to be that way to survive there. As much as I love my hometown NYC, it is dangerous and has a very high violent crime rate. Unfortunately, predators mistake niceness for weakness and target people who are over friendly to strangers. I'm sure most people would want to make friends, but it's hard to tell if someone wants to just be friendly or if they want to scam/hurt you in some way. New Yorker just take heed to the advice they were given as a child "Don't talk to strangers" and they apply it to their adulthood as well for the same reasons. Just a thought.
Sevdie, I always enjoy your posts. I hadn't seen them for a while and I missed them.
I have wondered at times if I should live in other parts of the country. But from posts about the south, the midwest, the southwest, etc., I know that I want to stay in the northeast, even if not in NYC. I have visited Florida and the midwest. OK to visit, but not to live.
Your input about the midwest was extremely useful. It helped me put things into perspective. It helped me appreciate what I take for granted in the Northeast - the way of thinking. I find that in Vermont, at least in Brattleboro. Brattleboro is intellectually and artistically alive and there is always something to do. Western Massachusetts is less than an hour away and New Hampshire is over the river.
And if I need to go to New York I can go into the car and get there in a few hours. The trip is visually rewarding in itself, except for a few places, like the part on I-95 between I-91 and the Merritt, and maybe the part of I-91 between Hartford and New Haven. I do not like to drive the trip at night, because I miss the scenery. Also, the roads are not well-lighted so I have to attend more intensely on the driving itself.
If you are in Burlington, I have read on this forum that you can take a direct, 1-hour flight to JFK airport for about $50. In terms of time and effort, you would be closer to NYC in Burlington than in Brattleboro, even though it is physically further away. Also, in Brattleboro, you have to travel a significant distance to even get to an airport. That's a disadvantage, especially if you do a lot of flying. I don't, but who knows what the future holds? I guess I'd have to move to Burlington!
Regarding impersonal and guarded New Yorkers: I have read that people are that way because of sensory overload in the city. But you are right about the need to be suspicous of strangers.
Believe me, it would be a relief to get rid of some of this suspiciousness. In New York, I find myself wondering if the businessperson I am dealing with is telling the truth or is trying to set me up to be ripped off. I am usually pretty intuitive about social contacts, but you never know.
My friend in Brattleboro once commented on my suspiciousness. When I reminded her that I was from New York, she said that a lot of New Yorkers she has met are that way.
Thank you for your post. Your comments were very helpful.
Thank you for such a nice compliment! I agree with you in wanting to stay in the Northeast. I don't think I could spend the rest of my life anywhere else. I am so glad I could be of help for you. I love this forum because you can learn about about places without having to spend money on visits. It can help you narrow your search and make an informed decision about places you would want to visit and consider relocating to.
Let us all know whether you decide to land in Battleboro or Burlington. I would love to hear how things go for you. I guess I can only speak for myself and my family as to why people are guarded in NYC. LOL.
"If you are in Burlington, I have read on this forum that you can take a direct, 1-hour flight to JFK airport for about $50. In terms of time and effort, you would be closer to NYC in Burlington than in Brattleboro, even though it is physically further away. Also, in Brattleboro, you have to travel a significant distance to even get to an airport. That's a disadvantage, especially if you do a lot of flying. I don't, but who knows what the future holds? I guess I'd have to move to Burlington!"
Now you're talking. That's the ironic thing. You may be further away from NYC in Burlington driving-wise, but because of the airport you are much closer timewise. The Burlington airport is superb. I just have to praise it because on our trip there it was so delightful.
From their website:
"About Burlington International Airport
Burlington International Airport is northern New England's most convenient and welcoming airport, with walk-to parking and a new $15 million expansion.
Adjacent to Burlington Vermont, BTV is just ten minutes from Lake Champlain and an hour from five world-class mountain resorts.
Business and leisure travelers alike appreciate BTV's friendliness, excellent on-schedule record, and direct flights to many major cities.
Beautiful, friendly, efficient and convenient-BTV is truly your gateway to a new kind of flying experience!"
Had to throw in my two cents about the bagels -
a thought - if it indeed is "in the water" to make NY bagels, you could always shlep water up from NYC a couple of times a year after visiting friends and use it to make your own bagels...my Dad used to bring a jug of water over to the relatives in Jersey (to their amusement) so he could drink New York water (!). On the other hand, you could go to Waitsfield to the little bakery and get some of their maple donuts which could make you forget all about bagels!
Hmm, NYC. I lived in Brooklyn for a year when I was at college, and my experience was that NYC boiled down to the plays on and off Broadway, Canal Street, some shopping, some positively great eats, the music and museums, the Park, and a lot of people too busy to enjoy any of the above.
A fantastic place to visit, but not a place to live unless you had an adreneline drip in your arm and a personal bulletproof barrier against beggars and insults. I don't wonder that the burnt out New Yorkers come to Vermont and places more sane.
OTOH, a 9 o'clock shutdown in Vermont is a vast improvement from when I was growing up. At 5 PM the lights started going out, by 6 PM, you'd better have a street light or flashlight, and after 9 PM, the only things open were the movie theatre, the bakery where the truckers stopped, one diner, one gate at the airport, and the night shift at IBM. The 10 PM News was considered too late, and Jack Parr? Seeing Jack Paar was a sinful excess to be paid for the following morning at 6 AM while groggily chewing wheaties.
I used to dream of driving to Glenns Falls to visit the auto racing there, because that was the only ad on the radio after 6 PM that wasn't a soporific. Going to New York where Cousin Brucie was staying up all night was just too much to imagine.
harry, you are so dead-on about the adrenaline drip and bullet-proof vest.
I, too, love going to NYC b/c of the pace. We walk everywhere. I joke that we get more exercise in NYC than any other place. Then again, there is SO much to do, that I think if I lived there, I would explode! But, it feels so tiring to have to constantly be on your guard; however, we have met quite a few friendly (!) people on the streets of NY. Dog people seem to be more willing to chat with tourists. I think I would get sick of shops as scenery after a while, though Central Park is very lovely. We are looking for more greenery, and a house with more than a few feet between our neighbors. Hoping VT is the solution for us.
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I love New York
what I DO miss the absolute most is the way New Yorkers think. It's hard to find stimulating conversation here where I live and very difficult to find people to relate to because they just don't think the way we do. It's so hard for people to understand where I am coming from sometimes (unless they are also from new york) because they do things differently out here.
I agree with you in wanting to stay in the Northeast. I don't think I could spend the rest of my life anywhere else. I am so glad I could be of help for you. I love this forum because you can learn about about places without having to spend money on visits. It can help you narrow your search and make an informed decision about places you would want to visit and consider relocating to.
