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You are welcome to take any experimental vaccine you want to. You are welcome to stay home as much as possible and distance yourself from all you want. You are not welcome to force other people to take an experimental vaccine.
Also very racist of you to claim Mexicans are the problem. Many illegal immigrants coming through are not from Mexico but traveling through, their race doesn’t matter but the fact that they test positive and are released into society does. The point is you don’t care about that, but you care about someone not being vaccinated which makes no logical sense whatsoever.
Final point....consumed by hate, driven by fear......not logic or common sense.
You are welcome to take any experimental vaccine you want to. You are welcome to stay home as much as possible and distance yourself from all you want. You are not welcome to force other people to take an experimental vaccine.
Also very racist of you to claim Mexicans are the problem. Many illegal immigrants coming through are not from Mexico but traveling through, their race doesn’t matter but the fact that they test positive and are released into society does. The point is you don’t care about that, but you care about someone not being vaccinated which makes no logical sense whatsoever.
Final point....consumed by hate, driven by fear......not logic or common sense.
The joke of bringing up Mexico is that Mexico had actually closed the border to all but essential travel early in the pandemic... because the US was out of control (not the other way around)....
You are welcome to take any experimental vaccine you want to. You are welcome to stay home as much as possible and distance yourself from all you want. You are not welcome to force other people to take an experimental vaccine.
Also very racist of you to claim Mexicans are the problem. Many illegal immigrants coming through are not from Mexico but traveling through, their race doesn’t matter but the fact that they test positive and are released into society does. The point is you don’t care about that, but you care about someone not being vaccinated which makes no logical sense whatsoever.
Final point....consumed by hate, driven by fear......not logic or common sense.
That's a crazy spin of what I'm attempting (good luck) to get across to you about individual freedoms vs. public health. But believe as you may.
I no more endorse building the wall at the Mexican border than promoting your false notion of stopping 'illegal immigration' as an effective means to avoiding covid at this stage of the outbreak. That is nothing more than a talking point of misdirection rather looking at the real cure which is called a Vaccine. BTW, what other 'illegal immigrants' are you referring to? It's not like Canadians are jumping over the border in mass. Nice try though. Is there any population of illegals greater in the US than those crossing the Mexican border? This is common knowledge to most who know anything about illegal immigrants. Maybe that fact somehow got passed you? Unauthorized Immigrant Population
The vaccine's effectiveness has already been proven worldwide which is all that matters especially in the midst of a pandemic. Waiting for the FDA would be like saying let thousands more die while we wait for another slow bureaucratic process to eventually complete. That's so irresponsible and uninformed that not even the FDA would say it. In fact, they said just the opposite!
The FDA as well as many other worldwide health organizations have been working to get a vaccine approved as quickly as possible to save lives given the aggressive rate of spread.
So, that is another myth and fallacy among so many others out there on the internet. Here's the most recent from the FDA endorsing the vaccine for youth.
“Having a vaccine authorized for a younger population is a critical step in continuing to lessen the immense public health burden caused by the COVID-19 pandemic,” said Peter Marks, M.D., Ph.D., director of the FDA’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research. “With science guiding our evaluation and decision-making process, the FDA can assure the public and medical community that the available data meet our rigorous standards to support the emergency use of this vaccine in the adolescent population 12 years of age and older.” -- FDA Authorizes Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for Emergency Use in Adolescents in Another Important Action in Fight Against Pandemic
I'll take the FDA's own guidance over those on social media spinning things to their own strange views of the virus. But as much as I disagree with you, it's obvious WA has a wide spectrum of residents from different world views. Some obviously are opposed to the vaccination. Whether the vaccine becomes more mandated is another question. It has already begun in some schools like UW where my son attends. That's probably a different topic for a different day.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 05-15-2021 at 05:31 PM..
I had nearly a mask-free day. I went to PCC for coffee. There were two other brave souls mask-free.. both were in their 60’s and looked as fed up as me. Later I met up with a community farmers market. Half wore masks, half did not. Then my son had soccer tryouts... same, about half did and half didn’t. All the kids did because very few of them are vaccinated.
But it does create the incentive for my kid... if he gets vaccinated he can train without one...
Our local school district just announced a pop up vaccine drive at the high school next week. I signed both my boys. If the government really wants to kill us they could just as easily put something in the water...
I was nearly mask-free as well... went to a jigsaw puzzle swap with a bunch of ladies and a few guys we've met up with a few times before from a facebook group.... about 20 people, about half wore masks even though it was outside in a park parking lot. Ah well, it will take awhile for everyone to come around. Been trading with these people for a year now, if they took them off I probably wouldn't recognize them. Hubby and I didn't wear one and no one hassled us or thought we were bad people (I don't think!)
Afterwards, we stopped by to visit a friend for a bit in her front yard, and then lunch with another friend at a tavern in Chehalis, where we had to mask up for about 20 seconds while we came in and sat down and then had a great cheeseburger.
Pretty good day!
Last edited by Diana Holbrook; 05-15-2021 at 08:44 PM..
Again, if the vaccinations work you are protected and should not be concerned. Also where is your concern for the millions of illegals pouring into the country already infected and spreading?
Blaming people that don’t want to take an experimental vaccine doesn’t seem like the answer. Lots of people have medical or religious reasons that are legitimate to them. It’s selfish of some to want other people to take an experimental vaccine....not a FDA approved vaccine just because they think it makes them safer....yet these same people may be obese, may not workout, may make tons of other poor personal health choices.
Outside risk in roaming streets of non vaccinated people transferring it is less than 1/10th of a percent....if your vaccinated than you probably have more of a chance of being hit by a car.
I'm just saying that vaccine-refusers are increasing their own chance of getting the virus, especially if socializing indoors with other vaccine-refusers while neither socially distancing nor wearing masks. My chance of catching it from them is minimal, since I've had both shots of the Moderna vaccine, but it isn't zero, which is why I'll continue to wear a mask in indoor settings, for the time being.
Vaccine-refusers, who are neither socially distancing nor wearing masks in public indoor settings, are more likely to help incubate future variants that could defeat current vaccines, putting us back to square one.
I'm not interested in playing the blame game. Those "illegals pouring into the country already infected and spreading", who you are blaming, likely got it from us, after we failed to contain it, just as we got it from the Chinese, after they failed to contain it. That there are millions of illegals pouring into the country is pure poppycock.
It is factual there are millions of undocumented aliens in our country, estimates very in how many millions but there are. 2 more billion from Covid relief funds just got diverted to take care of migrant children since the election surge has persisted. It’s not a blame game, I am simply saying the logic of getting upset at a person for not wearing a mask while not caring that thousands of known positive cases are being transported in public makes zero sense....yet that is where we are.
Yes, refusing a vaccine could make some more likely to contract it. This group of people may prefer the risk of the virus if they caught the virus over an experimental vaccine. They have assessed the risks and made a decision, and many people that have taken the vaccine are making the best decisions for themselves as well.
I would also go back to another point made earlier....vaccine recipients are still more likely to wear a mask or fearful to go into public than non vaccinated folks. They are on average much more afraid, and perhaps for personal reasons that make sense for them. Non vaccinated people tend to be younger and in better shape with less worry for themselves if they were to catch it. I agree that not being vaccinated could and likely would cause virus transfer, but the flu still hasn’t gone away and killed thousands per year (well except last year because Covid paid better).
Some are really invested and bought into all the Covid doom and gloom and can’t accept it was never as bad as the media made it out to be. How many times since the election have you seen the death toll displayed in banners on the news? Answer is never....it was a daily occurrence to get the media’s hated official out of office, and notice the complete shift afterward. The media has created the divide with their fear mongering to get clicks and their candidate.
Millions of people’s experience don’t match the media’s in their day to day lives. They have evaluated evidence around them and dared to form their own opinions based on critical thinking skills they have. If some aren’t as hysterically afraid as others it’s probably because their experiences are different.
As time goes on people will warm up to the vaccine, and it sounds like it will likely be an annual event anyways.
People aren't used to change and this announcement caught a lot residents and businesses by surprise. So, some businesses will still be requiring masks until the owners are comfortable enough to remove the restriction. It was easier to blame the gov't when mask requirements were mandated statewide. Now, its up them.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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It's not like we (USA) should need to be told to mask / de-mask / vaccinate... We are supposedly educated and have a HC system (?)
Do what is right! (not for you!, but for others / your community and country).
Trust the HC professionals who KNOW how to measure and control pandemic spread... Covid did not disappear on May 13th at the White House briefing. There were no contibuting and sustained facts leading to this announcement. It was a juvenile hairbrained idea that might meet an elusive metric for "more people vaccinated". As if anyone who is a parent / teacher / employer / babysitter / criminal justice administrator, judge, sociologist, Dr... doesn't already know how well this will work.
“If you are fully vaccinated, you can start doing the things that you had stopped doing because of the pandemic.”
The USA has a lot of egg on it's face in front of the world for HOARDING vaccines which are not needed or wanted here, while other countries have not been able to even get the raw materials to make vaccines, not buy vaccines from suppliers, who have committed MORE unneeded / not desired vaccines to USA,
It's not like it is a big mystery how to control a fine particulate aerosol borne infection. (Which Covid had been defined a yr ago, and speculated and communicated by health scientist pre-Jan 2020). Many countries responded appropriately and spared their citizens and economys.
Vietnam and Taiwan = 0.5 deaths / m (very compact cities / mass transit / apartment living / multi generational homes / high influx from China out outbreak of Covid)
Singapore, Thailand, NZ = 3-5 deaths / m
Congo. Mail, Mozambique = 25 deaths / m (frequently dealing with community health crisis', and VERY limited HC available)
Japan = 90 / m. (very compact cities / mass transit / apartment living / multi generational homes / ELDERLY population)
USA / UK = 1800 deaths / m = 3600x worse than Taiwan, 600x worse than China (Much wide open space in USA and little mass transit / or tightly spaced working conditions = minimal chance for spread)
Italy = 2000 deaths / m (close proximal / contact society with highest elderly population ratio in Europe)
Note the 'No-Mask' CDC announcement was a White House Press event (i.e. politically initiated and motivated), and a surprise (again) to the scientists. 636 Epidemiologists Disagree With the CDC on This One Thing, Survey Shows https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/636-...155310906.html
A recent survey of 723 epidemiologists found that 636 of them (88 percent) believe that it is still necessary to wear masks outside if you are in a large crowd, even if you're fully vaccinated.
These folks are the scientists... it is their life, their skillset, their passion and their profession (and where we SHOULD be getting info), but from the entire world of professionals, not just in the USA, which is NOT the best at HC..., and certainly not knowledgable of pandemics which other countries are far more experienced, prepared, and capable.
Remember all the youtubes on viral spread (a yr ago) from engineers and students stuck at home? All you need is a blacklight, which most RE agents / landlords use to inspect for pet spray / urine. And... as MIT asked CDC last month "Where did you come up with 6ft distancing? That is all wrong, 60 ft is not enough in the right conditions!"
Hints:
Beware of confined space and lingering aerosol.. small rooms, elevators, bathrooms, healthclub, dancing, singing, boisterous conversations, yelling... (panting / exertion = the heavy breathers at Health Club, these members are the drama queens).
Breathing / lung exchanges displace fresh air at a rate of 4-5liters / breath = 8+ CuFt / min per person. (get out of a confined and crowded space FAST!!!, a small office / waiting room could be overwhelmed with aerosol in less than 10 minutes if HVAC is lacking or not even exchanging (often the case).
If you can smell perfume when someone enters a room, that is about the same particulate size as Covid, and can be detected to 100'+
FIRST thing you do when you enter a space... Locate the return air duct(s) and stay as far from it as possible. Find a spot with air movement, preferably FRESH / outdoor air.
It is a wonder that ALL public spaces and offices are not required to have an HVAC anemometer ($20 - $120) to determine and improve ventilation / filtering / fresh air exchanges. And place customers and employees accordingly
I'm concerned about Covid because:
I lived and worked in Asia during SARS and MERS and Europe during Mad Cow (which is currently mysteriously reemerging in areas of the USA). I know what might (should) be expected of a populous to control a disease outbreak - USA does not 'get-it'.
I have a very susceptible fragile health spouse
I volunteer with quite needy and susceptible elderly (daily)
I see a lot of people die (Hospice volunteer and elder caregiver for over 45 yrs)
It is so amazing that USA people still think masks are for personal protection rather than courtesy to others, and that those who wear them are in any way paranoid or protecting themselves. (N-95 offers protection, but still is not sealed). If you need to protect yourself from Covid risk, you need to leave the USA. Covid is here to stay, it THRIVES on our weaknesses.
Vaccines / Hand washing are for SELF
Masks / social distancing is for OTHERS.
I would expect the USA will be (unnecessarily) fighting Covid for 5+ yrs, but could have controlled it a yr ago. Very, very simple, but it takes everyone being concerned about others, not self.
599,863 dead Americans from Covid.
10x the Vietnam War USA casualties in 1/15th the time frame.
Whatever you do... don't listen to CDC or politicians for instruction on health protocol. There is plenty of science worldwide to get REAL and effective information,
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 05-16-2021 at 02:25 AM..
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Been trading with these people for a year now, if they took them off I probably wouldn't recognize them. Hubby and I didn't wear one and no one hassled us or thought we were bad people (I don't think!)
. 
, and certainly not knowledgable of pandemics which other countries are far more experienced, prepared, and capable.
