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I've already shown you a link where it is shown that there is indeed a sizable area of the South, including in inland areas, where the climax forest is that of evergreen forest. Logic and reasoning also kick in; decidious trees are inefficient for the southern climate, and evergreens, not needing to waste energy like deciduous trees do, will spread, and take over, eventually. The trees are spreading, but the process is slow, since, first, growing tree seedlings have to compete with other vegetation, so as not to be sun deprived, and, also, many evergreen trees (especially the live oak), take a life-time to reach stately maturity.
This pic below in Louisiana depicts what I am talking about; the decidious forest is quickly getting subtropical, with loads of thick subtropicals, including palmetto, crowding the forest. Soon, the palmettos will grow tall, and the forest, essentially, becomes a subtropical palm forest:
Those Sabal minor will never get tall and the forest is not shifting into an evergreen broadleaf forest at an alarming rate, if it all. Though imo, lack of broadleaf evergreens does not make a climate any less subtropical. It is what it is.
Those Sabal minor will never get tall and the forest is not shifting into an evergreen broadleaf forest at an alarming rate, if it all. Though imo, lack of broadleaf evergreens does not make a climate any less subtropical. It is what it is.
The "sabal minor" in Louisiana are of a trunking form, and actually do form robust, above-ground trunks, when in a matured state. They are coined as "Sabal Louisiana."
The deciduous forests in the South are seeing more and more subtropical foliage taking hold, from the evergreen lianas taking over the trees, to the palmettos and small evergreen trees (yaupons, wax myrtles, etc) growing and growing.
This drive in Northern Florida says it all; lots of tall palmettos and subtropical understory abound, enough to make a basic deciduous forest look like an exotic subtropical palm forest: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9925...7i13312!8i6656
In the SE US, broadleaf evergreen trees from various parts of the world have ALREADY naturalized in many parts of the region (camphor laurel, brazillian pepper, black mangrove, etc). Get a clue.
All three palm species are hardy to zone 8 in the wild. Of course, there are many subspecies of each palm that are more tender/hardier than the originals.
These people just don't know about the Southeast. I don't blame them, though, little information is present about the region regarding vegetation.
The 'dying' out is more of a gradual process; however, the subtropical evergreen growth is quite rapid in many areas, particularly along the Gulf/South Atlantic.
When I said SE, I was referring more of the inland areas such as Atlanta, rather then the areas that are within 50-100 miles of the coast. And I still don't think western WA will be dominated by broadleaf evergreens, it's just that I think it has a greater chance than a place like Atlanta. However the more coastal regions I think definitely will become more evergreen especially with global warming. But then again that is only my opinion. And a place doesn't have to be subtropical to have a lot of evergreens correct me if I'm wrong but Tasmania and New Zealand have a lot of evergreens and they aren't exactly subtropical but more of a mild temperate such as the Pacific coast of CA, OR and WA
When I said SE, I was referring more of the inland areas such as Atlanta, rather then the areas that are within 50-100 miles of the coast. And I still don't think western WA will be dominated by broadleaf evergreens, it's just that I think it has a greater chance than a place like Atlanta. However the more coastal regions I think definitely will become more evergreen especially with global warming. But then again that is only my opinion. And a place doesn't have to be subtropical to have a lot of evergreens correct me if I'm wrong but Tasmania and New Zealand have a lot of evergreens and they aren't exactly subtropical but more of a mild temperate such as the Pacific coast of CA, OR and WA
All very well talking about evergreen trees, but what about other indicators? Some of the native evergreens here have are winter flowering and there are enough insects around to ensure pollination. Insect noise in a constant during winter, on all but the coldest days. There are a huge range of fruiting trees that can provide fruit in all seasons, everything from citrus to passionfruit, to macadamia and avocado- where are you going to get that in Washington or Oregon?
You might consider that as a result of "mild temperate-ness" , but I say it's because the subtropical influence never truly leaves .... unlike somewhere like Atlanta, or much of the South.
Other factors include the origin of weather systems. Decaying cyclones from the Pacific can be expected here until early winter, and low pressure from tropical waters can send warm humid air masses at any time of the winter. High pressure also channels warm air masses during winter. Even cold fronts bring warm air from the north Tasman Sea, as part of their cycle.
I'm done with this. Me and Smith and asagi are people who live In the south. We have all told you guys what it's like yet you refuse to believe. That is ignorance. Who is more knowledgeable about the south? Someone who lives there or someone who doesnt?
I'm done with this. Me and Smith and asagi are people who live In the south. We have all told you guys what it's like yet you refuse to believe. That is ignorance. Who is more knowledgeable about the south? Someone who lives there or someone who doesnt?
This is what I have always said about the UK as well, yet nobody bothers to listen.
Where is the scientific proof of this? You can't just state something like that without documentation. Link after link talks about the harsh continental nature of the southern climate in winter, and hence the dominance of deciduous trees. Not one link ever mentions native broadleaf evergreens taking over deciduous forests down there. It just is not happening.
You can't expect the anthony cold epoch troll to offer up scientific proof, lol. You should know that by now. Just ignore and carry on.
And there are many species of oak native in the south that are deciduous.
And the native ranges for most of those species include areas colder than the south, and should be discounted from the discussion in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
Lol, Raleigh averages 3 ice days per winter. Some winters more, some less, but that is the average. How can somewhere with three days not getting above freezing have an active winter ecosystem. It doesn't.
How could it not? 3 ice days is a very insignificant amount vs 362 non ice days, and a little freeze isn't stopping the show. It's the average conditions that matter most, much of NC is more than mild enough to maintain an active ecosystem in the winter months.
Quote:
Conifers mixed in with deciduous trees do not make a landscape look active or subtropical in winter. They just don't.
This is your opinion, but I have to (strongly) disagree with you here. The more green a place has, the more lively looking it is. Hard to go through the pine barrens in the winter and say it looks dead, it looks largely the same year round.
Quote:
When you look out at a landscape that is 20% broadleaf, and 80% dead leafless trees, it just doesn't look active in winter. I've seen it.
I hope you aren't referring to that map that was posted a few pages back, which was for the percentage of BLE native species, not BLE distribution. And even still, BLE are only one kind of evergreen, and you have a host of other evergreens in the landscape.
I'm done with this. Me and Smith and asagi are people who live In the south. We have all told you guys what it's like yet you refuse to believe. That is ignorance. Who is more knowledgeable about the south? Someone who lives there or someone who doesnt?
How can you claim to have a subtropical climate yet cannot grow edible citrus? There really aren't many humid subtropical climates over the world that can't grow citrus. Citrus is a purely subtropical plant.
The heat is there for sure in the South, but the large deviations in winter prevent it. Just look at where joe90 is and what he can grow vs NC. And he ain't even subtropical. Not all subtropical climates are equal. The worst of the bunch, imo, is the inland South for precisely this reason. Can't grow citrus, shouldn't really be subtropical.
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