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Since this thread has been bumped back up, I might as well add a few more things.
As weatherboxes go, I have more than just Tybee Island - here are 2015 and 2020 Tallahassee weatherboxes that in my opinion nicely illustrate the much discussed variability at the start of this thread from before I was a member. I put these in another thread but they belong here too.
I can see why some people might not like things like 8C jumps in the monthly averages and extremes from February to March with a third jump in April to a monthly record low higher than the average low, or March being a bit warmer than April despite April being a bit above average with May then having a monthly minimum the same as April, in a subtropical climate.
As much as I like seeing all that for weather monitoring purposes, it's far from a stretch to see why it might not be good for some.
But none of this really disqualifies the Southeast from being subtropical and it's not objectively 'inferior' either. The subtropics are notorious for temperature extremes (a well known example being subtropical climates having hotter summers than tropical climates get at any time), so that is to be expected for at least the US.
Another thing about this is that in the Southeast, you are going to warm up real fast from either normal or freak blasts of cold that a lot of users like to use to try and disqualify it from being subtropical. A great example of this would be in the mentioned Dallas in eg the freak February 2021 cold blast, the worst of the cold wave was on February 13-19 but the last frost was on February 20 and followed by a par-the-course hot 27C February 23 day.
It's one of the biggest things setting them apart from actual continental climates. Dallas February 2021 cold weather is pretty par the course for classic continental climates' Februaries and they aren't going to be getting February last frosts nor hot weather.
I would consider summers hotter than many tropical climates while having appreciably cooler winters to be a on the extreme side given subtropical temperatures, and these of course are what subtropical climates (US at least) are known to have among climate enthusiasts. Subtropics being extreme is not my original statement by the way, I've found it said on PalmTalk and I find myself agreeing with it.
Really, this makes sense. Far south enough to get a subtropical ridge that gives them these hotter summers, but of course far enough north to get cold air, and these 2 battling it out also leads to things like the Tallahassee and Dallas examples I mentioned.
I would consider summers hotter than many tropical climates while having appreciably cooler winters to be a on the extreme side given subtropical temperatures, and these of course are what subtropical climates are known to have among climate enthusiasts. Subtropics being extreme is not my original statement by the way, I've found it said on PalmTalk and I find myself agreeing with it.
Really, this makes sense. Far south enough to get a subtropical ridge that gives them these hotter summers, but of course far enough north to get cold air, and these 2 battling it out also leads to things like the Tallahassee and Dallas examples I mentioned.
So the US southeast is both too hot and too cold. That's what I've been saying all along.
I would consider summers hotter than many tropical climates while having appreciably cooler winters to be a on the extreme side given subtropical temperatures, and these of course are what subtropical climates (US at least) are known to have among climate enthusiasts. Subtropics being extreme is not my original statement by the way, I've found it said on PalmTalk and I find myself agreeing with it.
Really, this makes sense. Far south enough to get a subtropical ridge that gives them these hotter summers, but of course far enough north to get cold air, and these 2 battling it out also leads to things like the Tallahassee and Dallas examples I mentioned.
Interesting...surprised you've been over on Palm Talk.....but you mentioned you know nothing about plants/trees....Palm Talk is a good start, some really good discussion there ....imo, if you're into climatology then you ought to know a bit about ecosystems and plants/trees...
Interesting...surprised you've been over on Palm Talk.....but you mentioned you know nothing about plants/trees....Palm Talk is a good start, some really good discussion there ....imo, if you're into climatology then you ought to know a bit about ecosystems and plants/trees...
I'm not there to learn about the palms. I'm there to learn about the best warm spots (even if they are microclimates) to monitor, only really have commented in the weather/climate section.
With palm growers come microclimate seekers after exactly what I'm after. My premise of places like the Tallahassee airport being a cold hole is no longer one I have to stand by with only wunderground stations, PalmTalk is a great place to learn about 9b Tallahassee, Augusta, etc.
I'm not there to learn about the palms. I'm there to learn about the best warm spots (even if they are microclimates) to monitor, only really have commented in the weather/climate section.
With palm growers come microclimate seekers after exactly what I'm after. My premise of places like the Tallahassee airport being a cold hole is no longer one I have to stand by with only wunderground stations, PalmTalk is a great place to learn about 9b Tallahassee, Augusta, etc.
Speaking of palms ....imo a good way to tell if a climate is subtropical or not is....
if a Sabal Palmetto can grow without protection in the winter...if it can grow = subtropical...
if can not grow = not subtropical
Speaking of palms ....imo a good way to tell if a climate is subtropical or not is....
if a Sabal Palmetto can grow without protection in the winter...if it can grow = subtropical...
if can not grow = not subtropical
No way is that as good as Koppen's grouping climates based on cause. Choosing one plant is arbitrary while taking into account all causes is objective.
So the US southeast is both too hot and too cold. That's what I've been saying all along.
Seems the previous reply to this was deleted. As I said I can understand why you might think that way, but at the same time, that kind of weather is truly a weather monitorer's paradise.
A record warm March warmer than the following April that is also warmer than usual and with no backload until May when all is safe makes for a lovely combo of variety and safety for example. As does a March 2.7C above normal that immediately follows a hammered February 2.4C below normal and has a higher average high than the February's record high.
Speaking of palms ....imo a good way to tell if a climate is subtropical or not is....
if a Sabal Palmetto can grow without protection in the winter...if it can grow = subtropical...
if can not grow = not subtropical
Virginia Beach, VA and Charlotte, NC cut off point. I agree with that based on vibes of the area. Another way of looking at it is where do the Southern Pine forests start.
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, only really have commented in the weather/climate section.
, PalmTalk is a great place to learn about 9b Tallahassee, Augusta, etc.
. Choosing one plant is arbitrary while taking into account all causes is objective.
