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The best part about the IPZ compared to Destin is the year-round warm ocean water. With the ocean water never falling below 20c and winter average 24 degrees, any warm day like today is comfortable swimming. When Destin gets warm winter days, and it does get plenty, you still have to deal with the winter average 17 degrees winter water, which feels very cold to most people
The best part about the IPZ compared to Destin is the year-round warm ocean water. With the ocean water never falling below 20c and winter average 24 degrees, any warm day like today is comfortable swimming. When Destin gets warm winter days, and it does get plenty, you still have to deal with the winter average 17 degrees winter water, which feels very cold to most people
Yeah, if you want to do swimming all winter then tropical and almost tropical Florida beats subtropical Florida hands down.
That said I have been able to acclimate to hemiboreal Canadian Shield lakes in June that may have been 17C, and the weather in which I swam was identical to Destin's warm winter days (as you would expect from a hemiboreal Canadian Shield June). Provided those lakes were around 17C, I think I'd be able to have a good swim on a warm Destin winter day.
Oh yes I can beat it! That kind of weather can't be beat for what I want in June or mid-September, but NOT January, where you can't beat the generously snowy and reasonably but not excessively cold weather of a Dfa/Dfb classic humid continental climate.
Palm Bay and Tulsa (which is a subtropical climate, not a continental one) are both horribly underweight when it comes to having enough cold. Places like the GTA, Minneapolis, Portland, and Ottawa are of just the right weight, whereas places like Thunder Bay or International Falls are overweight with too much cold.
To me just the right amount of cold is like just the right amount of cholera.
Isn't Oakville TWN a rather new station? Therefore Oakville WCPC might be more accurate.
It is new, but Oakville WCPC doesn't have particularly long lasting records either, only 22 years (with seasonal winter low of -23.0C). Looking at those same 22 years for Pearson, Pearson's seasonal lows were 24.3C, so a bit colder.
Oakville TWN has been 0.6C colder with its winter seasonal lows compared to Pearson during its years of operation (2008-present), at -21.2C for Oakville TWN and -20.6C for Pearson.
Over the past 30 winters, Pearson's seasonal low was -21.4C, so if the same relationship with Oakville WCPC holds, it would have been -20.1C over the same period (USDA 6b is -20.6C to -17.8C). I think it's possible that the amount of warming experienced in both locations would have been similar when comparing 70s-90s vs 90s-present. Although there may have been some regional warming due to GHGs and natural cycles, the best explanation for localized warming would be UHI expansion and both locations have seem a fair bit of development around them, especially to their NW, where could winds would have come from.
It is new, but Oakville WCPC doesn't have particularly long lasting records either, only 22 years (with seasonal winter low of -23.0C). Looking at those same 22 years for Pearson, Pearson's seasonal lows were 24.3C, so a bit colder.
Oakville TWN has been 0.6C colder with its winter seasonal lows compared to Pearson during its years of operation (2008-present), at -21.2C for Oakville TWN and -20.6C for Pearson.
Over the past 30 winters, Pearson's seasonal low was -21.4C, so if the same relationship with Oakville WCPC holds, it would have been -20.1C over the same period (USDA 6b is -20.6C to -17.8C). I think it's possible that the amount of warming experienced in both locations would have been similar when comparing 70s-90s vs 90s-present. Although there may have been some regional warming due to GHGs and natural cycles, the best explanation for localized warming would be UHI expansion and both locations have seem a fair bit of development around them, especially to their NW, where could winds would have come from.
Plant hardiness for me is more than just seasonal lows, average temperature needs to take into account and most importantly what can grow there. Using recent data for seasonal lows is an artificial way of inflating the zones.
Yeah, if you want to do swimming all winter then tropical and almost tropical Florida beats subtropical Florida hands down.
That said I have been able to acclimate to hemiboreal Canadian Shield lakes in June that may have been 17C, and the weather in which I swam was identical to Destin's warm winter days (as you would expect from a hemiboreal Canadian Shield June). Provided those lakes were around 17C, I think I'd be able to have a good swim on a warm Destin winter day.
It depends on the mindset. In June in Canada everyone is excited to finally be able to enjoy summer activities after a long winter and willing to compromise and put up with somewhat chilly water. The sun will also be stronger in Canada, with a sun angle of about 67-68 during solar noon, compared to 36-52 in Destin's winters. I've gone into hemiboreal "cottage country" once and during a hot day in early May, with temperatures around 26C, and sun angle reaching 62deg, I decided I needed to cool down and went for a quick swim. I didn't need a long time to cool down... the lake was frozen only 2 weeks earlier and probably had a temperature of about 5C, but I was hot enough that I craved the cold water enough to get into it for 20 seconds.
If you spend thousands of dollars on a Florida beach vacation, you're probably going to be pretty disappointed by 17C waters, and if you live there and are used to 25C+ waters for much of the year, 17C will definitely feel like a bad time of year to go swimming.
Yup. None of the four last too long, and I prefer the cooler ones as it is
Pertinent to this thread, I think the Southeast has some great examples of 3 season climates when you start looking at the middle ground subtropical climates. Not a very often discussed type of seasonal climate for sure, I think because they are often just wrongly stereotyped into 'warmer 4 season climates' or something like that.
Quintessential subtropical Dallas for example has a mild winter as warm as the spring/fall of the quintessential 4 season Dfa/Dfb humid continental climate, a warm-hot spring/fall as warm as the summer of said humid continental climate, and a quite hot summer as hot as or hotter than year round tropical weather.
For the purposes of those from 4 season climates, the seasons are essentially tropical+ summer, humid continental summer, and humid continental spring/fall. Anywhere in the Southeast with a coldest month of close to 9C would fill the bill, and it's probably the kind of people who like lots of heat but also want a moderate cooldown (to mild instead of cold weather).
Plant hardiness for me is more than just seasonal lows, average temperature needs to take into account and most importantly what can grow there. Using recent data for seasonal lows is an artificial way of inflating the zones.
I suspect different plants will be impacted by different things.
Some will require a long, warm summer, in which case the GTA's summers are cooler and shorter than most parts of the Midwest that are USDA Zone 6, and more comparable to USDA Zone 4-5 summers like Minnesota or Wisconsin.
Some are sensitive to extreme cold, -25C, -30C, -35C... in which case the GTA is fairly mild for its latitude compared to elsewhere in eastern NA and comparable to USDA Zone 6 climates.
Others might be sensitive to deep penetrating ground freeze, and prolonged cold, in which case, the GTA's fairly cold average winter temperatures will make it comparably harsh to a USDA zone 5.
Others are sensitive to heavy snow loads that may break branches, especially when it comes to evergreen trees, which could make growing Southern Magnolias more of a challenge in Upstate NY than the Golden Horseshoe? The GTA's frequency of heavy snowfalls is probably comparable to a typical USDA zone 5-6.
Others are might be more sensitive to sudden extreme freezes, especially if they occur while the plants aren't dormant. For example, some plants in the US South may not have been dormant in Oct 18-20 when the first freeze occurred in much of the region, since average daily highs are still around 21-27C at that time of year. Not such a problem in Toronto where average highs at that time of year were only 12-13C and most plants were already hardened off to cooler temperatures and ready for their first freeze. Other plants which require colder temperatures to go dormant and can handle a light freeze while non-dormant may have been stressed by the Christmas cold snap, which saw extreme cold of -10C or even -20C and colder in climates that are significantly warmer than Toronto. These kinds of extreme temperature swings don't happen in Toronto, Toronto will get temperature swings, but not on that level.
In terms of what can grow here, you see a sudden appearance of dozens of plant species at Ontario's "Carolinian boundary", which begins around Canadian Hardiness Zone 6a/lower 6b. Moving further south into the US, the rate at which new species appear seems to be lessened (ex in Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee), you get a few new species here and there, but not a large amount at once like at the Carolinian boundary. It's only once you get into the more intensely subtropical Deep South that you start seeing a large amount of new native plant species appear.
Ontario's "Carolinian" plants can often be grown in areas a bit further north like Montreal, Ottawa, Orillia, but they aren't native there, so it's unclear if they can be grown there due to changing climate, and therefore could naturalize... or if it's due to human intervention (ex suppressing competing species and having them spend their first couple years protected from harsh winters in nursery greenhouses), and therefore would not naturalize.
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! That kind of weather can't be beat for what I want in June or mid-September, but NOT January, where you can't beat the generously snowy and reasonably but not excessively cold weather of a Dfa/Dfb classic humid continental climate.
