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I was 15 in 1978 when i started keeping records jack. There have been coconuts in FL way before the 1800's. Don't know where you dreamed up i typed they have only been around since the 70's. But there have never been coconuts growing so far north in FL like there is now.
What is your def of "so far north"?
Last edited by volosong; 01-07-2023 at 04:01 PM..
Reason: fix close quote hypertag
Coconut range in FL moving up and down the peninsula is not a new thing. There were mature coconuts in Orlando in the 1950s. Just a vicious cycle of freezes and warm stretches with southern Florida acting as the "refugia"
I was 15 in 1978 when i started keeping records jack. There have been coconuts in FL way before the 1800's. Don't know where you dreamed up i typed they have only been around since the 70's. But there have never been coconuts growing so far north in FL like there is now.
What is your def of "so far north"?
The coconut line was south St Pete in 1981 and now i see them growing in Pasco county.
No coconuts no tropical. Not even FL is tropical 100% as Coconuts got killed by cold weather back when we had real winters. The way things are going things are getting more tropical as the years go by.
i'm not a huge fan of the koppen tropical standards, but I would give Miami tropical status from the human perspective. That is, for the vast majority of the year the weather feels tropical.
this forecast is very seasonal for Miami, and only one day falls short of being tropical. If a place has hot tropical weather for more than 90% of the year, i'll give it a pass, even if it gets occasional cool evenings like Saurday or rare cold snaps.
My issue with koppen is more with climates like this being tropical:
While it looks like a lovely climate, it doesn't fit the colloquial understanding of a tropical climate. I think most people who are primarily concerned with the human perception of climate would consider Miami to be far more tropical than Mérida
I have not seen anyplace in Louisiana that I would consider tropical or even close to it. However I will say NOLA is quite a warm subtropical climate, and the kind of place that makes me really skeptical of other koppen "subtropical" climates like St Louis. Since this place can be so much ridiculously warmer than them in the winter, and still be unambiguously subtropical.
i'm not a huge fan of the koppen tropical standards, but I would give Miami tropical status from the human perspective. That is, for the vast majority of the year the weather feels tropical.
this forecast is very seasonal for Miami, and only one day falls short of being tropical. If a place has hot tropical weather for more than 90% of the year, i'll give it a pass, even if it gets occasional cool evenings like Saurday or rare cold snaps.
My issue with koppen is more with climates like this being tropical:
While it looks like a lovely climate, it doesn't fit the colloquial understanding of a tropical climate. I think most people who are primarily concerned with the human perception of climate would consider Miami to be far more tropical than Mérida
I have not seen anyplace in Louisiana that I would consider tropical or even close to it. However I will say NOLA is quite a warm subtropical climate, and the kind of place that makes me really skeptical of other koppen "subtropical" climates like St Louis. Since this place can be so much ridiculously warmer than them in the winter, and still be unambiguously subtropical.
Agreed, although at least both Miami and Merida are considered tropical. I suppose one could distinguish between tropical lowland climates (Miami) and tropical highland climates (Merida). Tropical highland climates are common in Papua, Sulawesi, the African Great Lakes region and Andes, while tropical lowland climates would be like West Africa, the Amazon, Thailand, Borneo, Gabon, the central part of the Congo basin, most of Panama...
^Agreed, Miami is tropical to me and Key West even more certainly is. Even if someone's standard of tropicality is coconut palm growth/survival, Key West's all-time record low of 41 F is not gonna kill them.
i'm not a huge fan of the koppen tropical standards, but I would give Miami tropical status from the human perspective. That is, for the vast majority of the year the weather feels tropical.
this forecast is very seasonal for Miami, and only one day falls short of being tropical. If a place has hot tropical weather for more than 90% of the year, i'll give it a pass, even if it gets occasional cool evenings like Saurday or rare cold snaps.
My issue with koppen is more with climates like this being tropical:
While it looks like a lovely climate, it doesn't fit the colloquial understanding of a tropical climate. I think most people who are primarily concerned with the human perception of climate would consider Miami to be far more tropical than Mérida
Human/colloquial perspective is just bad when it comes to climatology. Tons of inaccurate weather stereotypes (like tropical equaling equatorial), I would not go by it AT ALL.
I see a lot of your comments with the premise of comparing with colloquial perspective and would highly advise against doing so. These stereotypes extend to premises as ludicrous as the Northwoods and Canada NEVER getting hot and always being cold.
Memph's comment covered highland/lowland discrepancy well, but I'll add that Meridia has warm weather year round and gets its weather for the same reasons equatorial tropical climates do. Hence why Koppen tropical works.
And yes, Miami is far closer to the pop culture stereotype of tropical. Probably has to do with its big tourist winter industry.
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I have not seen anyplace in Louisiana that I would consider tropical or even close to it.
Lol neither have I. I made this thread when there was fake data putting Grand Isle as warm as nearly tropical Brownsville in January.
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However I will say NOLA is quite a warm subtropical climate, and the kind of place that makes me really skeptical of other koppen "subtropical" climates like St Louis.
Just like the tropical climates they get their weather for the same reasons, so it is logical to unite them as Koppen did. Not to mention while St. Louis is literally the absolute coldest a subtropical climate can be (so I can see why you might initially be skeptical), its 14.1C annual average, 7 months of warm-hot weather, and 7 months of frost free season are all very reasonable things for a borderline continental subtropical climate.
New Orleans is definitely quite warm for a subtropical climate though. Very glad you notice this is the case, much better than many on here who put it as a typical or even a 'maybe' subtropical climate.
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Since this place can be so much ridiculously warmer than them in the winter, and still be unambiguously subtropical.
The reason for that is because New Orleans is much closer to the most unambiguously subtropical climate (Dallas of course) than St. Louis is. Plus it is closer to the subtropical stereotype (of the Deep South, which is actually accurate!)
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