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While your right that you cant have a defeated attitude I think he has a point. I had JUST got my 55k job when I was 25 and thats with a chemical engineering degree. I talked to some of the old timmer engineers and they actually did the time value of money calcs and recent grads were making significantly less than they were when you adjust for inflation and the cost of goods, services and housing (especially housing) so I would say a starting ENGINEER of all jobs is living wage.
The greed of corporations and the lax laws in the USA are causing most of these problems along with NAFTA and overseas outsourcing. Someone with a HS degree or a degree less difficult than engineering should make a living wage and engineers should be making enough to pay OFF a house in 3-5 years while maintaining a family and having 2 cars with extra money burning out of their pockets (thats how the PE I worked under lived when he graduated a bit after WW2).
The reality is right now that the american middle class has been reduced to indentured servants, its not an entitlement mentality, the american dream has been slowly erroding since sometime after WW2 and right now its harder than ever to get a solid good wage, its basicly a crap shoot these days, you almost have to fall butt backwards into some lucky fluke buisness or have some serindipidous idea but even then your odds of getting a loan to start a buisness is slim and patent law offers really scant protection of ideas unless you have a fortune to spend in lawyers to protect your product.
I don't buy into any of that garbage. It is the people who have fooled everyone into believing you need a college degree to get a good job. Its funny but of most of the people I know that went to college make less than those who only have a HS diploma and some sort of technical training.
I am not saying college is a bad move but its not the proven way to a high paying job.
You can believe whatever you want but I live by this quote:
"The person who says it can't be done is usually being passed by the person doing it"
As has been said on this thread, cost of living varies depending on where you are.
But I heard a guideline is 3 times the monthly rent.
So take the average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment and times it by 3. That is my idea of a living wage.
Like I said, I'm not asking for a high paying job.
Ok so depending on where you live that could be huge difference. So the average rent is 500-700/mo where I live. So let's take the high number. You would need to make 2100/mo or 25k/yr. Which is about 12/hr. Wow that must be impossible to find these days.....
If you don't think you can make 12/hr after going to college you really should just save your money and drop out.
Ok so depending on where you live that could be huge difference. So the average rent is 500-700/mo where I live. So let's take the high number. You would need to make 2100/mo or 25k/yr. Which is about 12/hr. Wow that must be impossible to find these days.....
If you don't think you can make 12/hr after going to college you really should just save your money and drop out.
There was a time when a high school diploma and no experience was enough for a living wage job.
Apparently you don't think everyone deserves a living wage. If someone is incapable of making a living wage, what do you recommend they do?
I applied to 11 jobs in high school. And I've also applied to jobs in college.
You say my attitude won't get me far.
But do you know what else won't get someone far? If they have an unrealistic attitude where they expect to get a good job. My brother thinks he will get a good job just by going to college. But he's a high school junior. I thought the same thing when I was his age.
I used to think a college degree would guarantee me a good job. Then I became a realist...I looked around and noticed how many recent graduates are unemployed or underemployed. If that's the reality of the economy, why should I expect to be any different?
Make sure you tell him not to get in much debt, go to a state college and pay as you go and dont take out more than 10k in loans from start to finish, if that. I say 10k becuase sometimes its worth taking out a SMALL amount of loans to keep your academic inertia up but not to the point you will be in debt the rest of your life.
I had a half ride to a top engineering school and took out 72k in debt and that was a very uncomfortable place to be in, luckly the degree paid off and most all of that is paid off other than a small portion of my federal loans. I took a HUGE gamble and got lucky but I would NOT recommend others do the same, you can get the same jobs with engineering degrees from state schools. A name brand gets you a LITTLE extra on your resume for your first job but after that and espeically after practicing for 4-5 years no one cares other than at a coctail party.
Things have changed from 30-40 years ago, we are all clawing our way just to make a living wage never mind ski boats and big houses. Part of me thinks this is part of the end times but the middle ages were worse so you just never know. Also just because we have high tech stuff now days only the richest can actually afford it so are we really that much better off? I guess we have inoculations to disease and clean water so thats a pretty major plus.
I agree. The problem is that kids leave home and want what mom and dad had. The only thing they dont realize it took mom and dad 20-30 years to obtain what they have.
So kids want to go to school, get a job that pays 50k a yr, buy a nice house, have a nice car, etc......
My parents lived in a trailer when they got married. Bought a little house when I was 3, bought a bigger house when I was 13, etc....
A living wage is exactly what it says it is. You are able to live. All the extras will come as time goes on but few are patient for that anymore.
I don't buy into any of that garbage. It is the people who have fooled everyone into believing you need a college degree to get a good job. Its funny but of most of the people I know that went to college make less than those who only have a HS diploma and some sort of technical training.
I am not saying college is a bad move but its not the proven way to a high paying job.
You can believe whatever you want but I live by this quote:
"The person who says it can't be done is usually being passed by the person doing it"
I would say an engineering degree is the peak of technical training which is what my degree is in. But I agree that alot of these college degrees are worth less than the paper they are printed on. However that being said even the competition amoungst technical people has created a sort of race to the bottom, not as bad as other fields of work but never the less pay for engineers is much less than it was 50 years ago when you adjust for inflation and all the other factors.
Also just becasue I understand this reality does not mean im sitting idolly by, I have a BS in ChE, a PE and am working on a MS in EE and working on a little forward looking IR project and a pilots licence, so it can be done BUT certian factors in this nation are making it harder and harder and the stakes are getting higher with fewer safety nets, that is when a nation is teetering on 2nd world status.
If you dont have a solid family support structure when your starting out your basicly totally screwed, whether thats co signing for modest tech training loans or a free place to stay when your trying to get trained etc.
I also agree that your TOTAL cost of housing (including heat, power, internet, etc) should be ~ 33% of your NET income not gross, so if your rent is 800$ a month for EVERYTHING your looking at 2400 a month AFTER ALL taxes, then you can expect about 600$ a month for auto for gas, insurance a payment and saving for unexpected repairs and that leaves you some wiggle room but 2400$ a month after all thoes taxes puts you at like 4k a month which puts you at like 48k a year and thats assuming low rent, where I live rent PLUS all the ancilary costs can run 1200$ a month.
This is why I recommend living with parents and going to a trade school and looking for work from your parents house because otherwise your screwed.
Plus in this new economy there is a new angle that you need at least 8-12 months of savings to live on because lay offs are rampant and workers basicly have no rights anymore, most states are "at will" which means they can fire you or lay you off at the drop of a hat, so your income needs to have that extra padding in it to save that emergency fund in a realistic amount of time and I would even say you need like 24 months of funds if your unemployment benifits are nominal, thats almost impossible on even 48k a year.
Part of the situation is entitlement (like everyone wants a new iphone or whatever) but I think we do ourselves a disservice when we just write everyone off as "entitled" when there are some serious problems going on in this nation that need to be addressed sooner rather than later.
What are you studying in college? It can guarantee youa job if you want it to. For example, get a BS in Business, and I guarantee you will get a job almost instantaniously if you apply to positions in Brazil, China, and India.
Don't limit yourself.
I'm studying Geography.
I'd like to stay in this country, but I'm willing to move around (in this country). That puts me a step above a lot of other people. A lot of people don't want to move to another state, let alone another country.
I agree. The problem is that kids leave home and want what mom and dad had. The only thing they dont realize it took mom and dad 20-30 years to obtain what they have.
So kids want to go to school, get a job that pays 50k a yr, buy a nice house, have a nice car, etc......
My parents lived in a trailer when they got married. Bought a little house when I was 3, bought a bigger house when I was 13, etc....
A living wage is exactly what it says it is. You are able to live. All the extras will come as time goes on but few are patient for that anymore.
To an extent, I want what my parents have. My dad makes a lot of money. But I've accepted the fact that I won't be able to afford some of the stuff they have. However, in some cases, I should be able to afford some variation of it.
Example: I don't ever expect to afford a new luxury car like my dad. But I should be able to afford a luxury car someday if I buy used.
My parents also have 2 kids, which is an expense I won't have. Kids are expensive so your money goes further if you don't have kids.
And since my parents have 2 kids, that also means they have a mortgage and they need a house fit for a family.
Since I won't have kids, there will be no reason for me to ever live anywhere bigger than a 1 bedroom place. I'd be content to live in apartments for the rest of my life. Buying is a bad decision these days anyway...people have a hard time selling houses and you never know if your job in a certain area will last. The point is not having kids saves money when it comes to housing too.
What I'm trying to say is I realize I won't be able to live my parents lifestyle, but I at least want to live a modified version of their lifestyle.
Since I've never had a job, just having a job that paid a living wage would seem rich.
Ok so depending on where you live that could be huge difference. So the average rent is 500-700/mo where I live. So let's take the high number. You would need to make 2100/mo or 25k/yr. Which is about 12/hr. Wow that must be impossible to find these days.....
If you don't think you can make 12/hr after going to college you really should just save your money and drop out.
I'm not talking about after college, I'm talking about now. Like I said, I have a hard enough time getting a minimum wage job, let alone a living wage job.
What I'm saying is someone with a high school diploma deserves a living wage, which in your area would be $12/hour.
Fair market rent in my area is $520 for a 1 bedroom. That means a living wage is $18,720 a year. Sounds low. I could probably do that. But keep in mind, this is a low cost of living area.
The fair market rent in an expensive area like Bergen County, NJ is $1,307. That means the living wage is $47,052.
Big difference between the two. It doesn't take much money to get by in Las Cruces. But if you live in Bergen County, you better hope your first job out of college pays well.
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