Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And yet, YOU can't have it both ways, either. Especially since you think it's appropriate to casually toss a 50-something's application for an entry-level position in the basket. Perhaps that person needed the job, and was willing to work for a lower salary. That applicant apparently didn't think that the entry-level position was beneath him, since he actually applied for the job.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I did not make the generalization that " it's appropriate to casually toss a 50-something's application for an entry-level position in the basket." I was giving an example that refuted the generalization that older, experienced workers are preferentially hired for entry level positions over young, inexperienced applicants. In the case I was referring to, we were looking for someone who would contribute over the long haul, not someone who would most likely retire in a couple of years or so. In addition the amount in compensation had already been determined. The pay went with the job period. It didn't matter if the applicant was 20 or 80, pay's the same.
Quote:
You post is just chock-full of contempt for those who are trying, regardless of their age/circumstances.
Don't even go there.
I don't have much patience with complaints about imaginary hiring practices or an attitude which implies disdain for jobs that many would be happy to fill. I have even less patience with anyone who wants to blame older workers for the current lack of jobs. The poster I was responding to has bills to pay, and I most certainly have bills to pay myself. What? Am I supposed to lay down and die, so a twenty something can take a job he doesn't want, but that I'd be happy to fill?
If people want to whine that life hasn't handed them the right situation right now, that's their perogative. Personally, I'd take that job as a grocery stocker in an heartbeat. Unemployment in my part of the country is at 20%. My next door neighbor just so happens to work as a grocery stocker and his wife is a waitress and they get by just fine. I could too if only I could find work.
That is a load of <insert your favorite scatological term>. You are stereotyping an entire generation.
Yes, some under 30 people are flakes. Others are entitled. And many of them are driven career oriented hard working people. Same as your generation and mine.
My children are educated as well as hard working as are their many friends and acquaintances. This is a tough time economically for all of us but especially for these young people as they are trying to make their way in this world. I will admit that finding a job was not as tough for me as it has been for these young people and look into your crystal ball of the future and see what financial burdens they will be inheriting, I do not envy them in the least bit so please refrain from degrading their true experiences. They are no better or worse in their work ethea (ἤθεα) than any generation before them.
and THIS!
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymond2
What do you mean by young? Do you mean inexperienced? Not hiring you because you are inexperienced and hiring someone more experienced for a specific job is the way it should be. I worked low wage fast food and entry level retail jobs earning minimum wage in my early 20's after graduating college. I see many young people in those same jobs today.
Young, inexperienced, early 20 somethings are supposed to be going after entry level jobs... if 55 year olds are applying to entry level jobs, then I feel more sympathy for the 55 -60 year olds desperate for money who should be looking forward to retirement.
If an inexperienced 21 year old applied to the same job an equally inexperienced 55 year old applied to... who is likely be discriminated against based on age? If both were equal in knowledge & experience, a younger person would almost always have the advantage. Older people are rarely hired specifically because of their age, it's because of their experience. Occupations where age is a criteria, it's youth that wins out.`
Please don't put words in my mouth. I did not make the generalization that " it's appropriate to casually toss a 50-something's application for an entry-level position in the basket." I was giving an example that refuted the generalization that older, experienced workers are preferentially hired for entry level positions over young, inexperienced applicants. In the case I was referring to, we were looking for someone who would contribute over the long haul, not someone who would most likely retire in a couple of years or so. In addition the amount in compensation had already been determined. The pay went with the job period. It didn't matter if the applicant was 20 or 80, pay's the same.
Don't even go there.
I don't have much patience with complaints about imaginary hiring practices or an attitude which implies disdain for jobs that many would be happy to fill. I have even less patience with anyone who wants to blame older workers for the current lack of jobs. The poster I was responding to has bills to pay, and I most certainly have bills to pay myself. What? Am I supposed to lay down and die, so a twenty something can take a job he doesn't want, but that I'd be happy to fill?
If people want to whine that life hasn't handed them the right situation right now, that's their perogative. Personally, I'd take that job as a grocery stocker in an heartbeat. Unemployment in my part of the country is at 20%. My next door neighbor just so happens to work as a grocery stocker and his wife is a waitress and they get by just fine. I could too if only I could find work.
It looks like you're busy putting words in people's mouths. Are you unemployed? It's ironic how you're trying to berate me on my "lack of flexibility" and I'm employed! You know, security companies are always hiring in most places. I worked in this industry for years. Every time a long-term unemployed person tells me they can't find work, I mention that security companies have plenty of openings and they hire just about anyone. Do you know what everyone does? They change the subject and ignore what I have to say. Security is either beneath them or they think it's too dangerous. The truth that few people seem to know is that most construction jobs are even more dangerous. It looks like I'm not the one who doesn't know how to look for a job and "take anything."
I see you didn't address the person who griped about older workers having to take entry-level jobs. That sounds like whining to me.
You know, security companies are always hiring in most places.
Thank you for the excellent insider's job tip! I had no idea that security companies were actively recruiting grandmothers. Do you think they'll let me have a gun? I REALLY hate having to beat up people with my cane. It can get so messy.
Quote:
I see you didn't address the person who griped about older workers having to take entry-level jobs. That sounds like whining to me.
Thank you as well for taking care of my omission and calling them on it yourself.
You seem like a very helpful young man. I'm sure the right employer will pick up on that and hire you for a job that truely deserve any time now.
Denying that some generations have had it easier than others is pointless. It is a obvious reality that boomers have always had better access to true career jobs than generations that came after them. In fact some refer to the term 'boomer privelage" to reference this reality. Not only did boomers have access to better jobs, but they got them with only high school education and the houses they bought with those high wages cost much much less in the 1970s and 1980s then the houses purchased by much poorer gen xers and later milenials. Boomers have flaunted this wealth and often chastise younger generations as slackers and underperformers because they do not have it. My generation (gen x) is in its 40s now and we have lived with the junk economy our entire working lives. Good jobs have only been available to the highly skilled and highly educated, regular joe jobs really have never existed for people my age. If you are not a highly educated professional, you are likely working at a junk job. Like I said we are middle aged now so we will never have the access they had. We have lived with this for well over 20 years, so many of us have gotten very good at making the most of our lower wage. THe millenials are still young, they have only delt with it for a few years. I truly hope they avoid the same fate, but with the offshoring of the last couple decades I dont have much hope they will get a better deal. Junk jobs, temp work and low wages are the new normal in America and its the burden of our generation, and likely the millenials also to bear it. The very least the privelaged boomers could do is stop disrespecting us for something we cannot control, and really something many boomers helped to cause. Those 60 year olds working in thier high wage union job or goverment job should be thankfull they were born in 1950 rather than 1970, because if they were they would be living a totally different life today.
From the looks of things it appears age discrimination may not be such a big factor overall. In fact from looking at things it may appear that young people are being discriminated against.[SIZE=2]8255909577916122
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE] "some 2.7 million jobs in the 16-55 year old category have been lost. The "offset": 4 million jobs for Americans between 55 and 69"
I notice when I go to job sites ( building construction ) I'm really hard pressed to find any young people, The majority of people I see getting hired are 55 and up. This explains why.
Let me see...these could be a "few" of the issues:
they can read, actually make change, and tend to have morals
show up for work on time
work ethic
ability to think and find something to do vs standing around stating "no one told me to"
WILLINGNESS to work if they can find a job in this economy, because they KNOW that it is difficult and to be grateful for what you can get
Case in point (and I am a professional, a nurse)...I work harder, stay when needed, do what it takes, see an issue and am willing to think to find a solultion and fix it, and have been recognized by my employer as someone that they can rely on. When I call in sick, they KNOW it is because I am sick. Not hungover, tired or just "not wanting to go in today"....I am the OLDEST person where I work except for 1 other, and she is the same as me. Everyone else is WELL under 40 and "call in when hungover, tired or just not "into it today", have to be monitored for how long a lunch hour they take, straggle in " late because of, traffic, accident, gate, fill in the blank", and while they do everything they are TOLD to do, refuse to look around and say "hey, let ME figure out someting to do with this down time". I understand I am referring to MY work place, but I see a lot of "well you didn't tell me you wanted" vs "let me be proactive" in a LOT of the younger folks.
SERIOUSLY, I have gone thru a drive thru window and handed them a $20 + 4 cents for something costing $16.54 and they look at me like "WTH, $20 covers it, what are these pennies about". As well, I have, at the age of 58, carried in supplies and things that are in huge boxes, while the younger MALE staff just watch!!!! SERIOUSLY, you are ok with someone your GRANDMA'S age carrying this, but do not offer to help out????
Maybe, just MAYBE those folks willing to hire older folks have dealt with some of those same issues.
The other thing that "frost my A$$ at work" are when you are asked to do something, the two of us close to 60 jump to it...others say "sure,
I'll get to it" and often dont using the excuse "Oh yeah, I forgot".
Less than 2 yrs from full retirement with a retirement/SSAN income more than I bring home now...but until then I willingly get up at 3am and ensure I am at work at LEAST 15 minutes early (because if you are not early, you are LATE) and am grateful for the fact my employer and boss have so much faith in me they rely on my work, do not micromanage me (because they are not required to) and APPRECIATE the work I do!
Let me see...these could be a "few" of the issues:
they can read, actually make change, and tend to have morals
show up for work on time
work ethic
ability to think and find something to do vs standing around stating "no one told me to"
WILLINGNESS to work if they can find a job in this economy, because they KNOW that it is difficult and to be grateful for what you can get
Case in point (and I am a professional, a nurse)...I work harder, stay when needed, do what it takes, see an issue and am willing to think to find a solultion and fix it, and have been recognized by my employer as someone that they can rely on. When I call in sick, they KNOW it is because I am sick. Not hungover, tired or just "not wanting to go in today"....I am the OLDEST person where I work except for 1 other, and she is the same as me. Everyone else is WELL under 40 and "call in when hungover, tired or just not "into it today", have to be monitored for how long a lunch hour they take, straggle in " late because of, traffic, accident, gate, fill in the blank", and while they do everything they are TOLD to do, refuse to look around and say "hey, let ME figure out someting to do with this down time". I understand I am referring to MY work place, but I see a lot of "well you didn't tell me you wanted" vs "let me be proactive" in a LOT of the younger folks.
SERIOUSLY, I have gone thru a drive thru window and handed them a $20 + 4 cents for something costing $16.54 and they look at me like "WTH, $20 covers it, what are these pennies about". As well, I have, at the age of 58, carried in supplies and things that are in huge boxes, while the younger MALE staff just watch!!!! SERIOUSLY, you are ok with someone your GRANDMA'S age carrying this, but do not offer to help out????
Maybe, just MAYBE those folks willing to hire older folks have dealt with some of those same issues.
The other thing that "frost my A$$ at work" are when you are asked to do something, the two of us close to 60 jump to it...others say "sure,
I'll get to it" and often dont using the excuse "Oh yeah, I forgot".
Less than 2 yrs from full retirement with a retirement/SSAN income more than I bring home now...but until then I willingly get up at 3am and ensure I am at work at LEAST 15 minutes early (because if you are not early, you are LATE) and am grateful for the fact my employer and boss have so much faith in me they rely on my work, do not micromanage me (because they are not required to) and APPRECIATE the work I do!
Let me see...these could be a "few" of the issues:
they can read, actually make change, and tend to have morals
show up for work on time
work ethic
ability to think and find something to do vs standing around stating "no one told me to"
WILLINGNESS to work if they can find a job in this economy, because they KNOW that it is difficult and to be grateful for what you can get
Case in point (and I am a professional, a nurse)...I work harder, stay when needed, do what it takes, see an issue and am willing to think to find a solultion and fix it, and have been recognized by my employer as someone that they can rely on. When I call in sick, they KNOW it is because I am sick. Not hungover, tired or just "not wanting to go in today"....I am the OLDEST person where I work except for 1 other, and she is the same as me. Everyone else is WELL under 40 and "call in when hungover, tired or just not "into it today", have to be monitored for how long a lunch hour they take, straggle in " late because of, traffic, accident, gate, fill in the blank", and while they do everything they are TOLD to do, refuse to look around and say "hey, let ME figure out someting to do with this down time". I understand I am referring to MY work place, but I see a lot of "well you didn't tell me you wanted" vs "let me be proactive" in a LOT of the younger folks.
SERIOUSLY, I have gone thru a drive thru window and handed them a $20 + 4 cents for something costing $16.54 and they look at me like "WTH, $20 covers it, what are these pennies about". As well, I have, at the age of 58, carried in supplies and things that are in huge boxes, while the younger MALE staff just watch!!!! SERIOUSLY, you are ok with someone your GRANDMA'S age carrying this, but do not offer to help out????
Maybe, just MAYBE those folks willing to hire older folks have dealt with some of those same issues.
The other thing that "frost my A$$ at work" are when you are asked to do something, the two of us close to 60 jump to it...others say "sure,
I'll get to it" and often dont using the excuse "Oh yeah, I forgot".
Less than 2 yrs from full retirement with a retirement/SSAN income more than I bring home now...but until then I willingly get up at 3am and ensure I am at work at LEAST 15 minutes early (because if you are not early, you are LATE) and am grateful for the fact my employer and boss have so much faith in me they rely on my work, do not micromanage me (because they are not required to) and APPRECIATE the work I do!
Old people aren't tech savvy. That's why they have a hard time getting jobs. They probably shouldn't drive either.
PS...I am 58 yrs old and will put my driving record up against most....1 ticket in my life, NO accidents ever (knock on wood), AND I have been driving since 14 (yes, back in the day you could get your "learners permit" at 14 yrs of age after taking drivers ed in school).
Laugh all you want, but we will retire from our job with RETIREMENT checks, savings, 401K and health care benefits....can you say the same????
Would not be interested in being your age today for all the tea in China!
PS...I am 58 yrs old and will put my driving record up against most....1 ticket in my life, NO accidents ever (knock on wood), AND I have been driving since 14 (yes, back in the day you could get your "learners permit" at 14 yrs of age after taking drivers ed in school).
Laugh all you want, but we will retire from our job with RETIREMENT checks, savings, 401K and health care benefits....can you say the same????
Would not be interested in being your age today for all the tea in China!
For the record, I didn't ask anything from you. I did however point out that your post was a gross (not to mention inaccurate) generalization about the generation I happen to be part of. I did so in parody by employing the same blatant, fallacious stereotype as you, only this time applying it to older people instead of younger people.
Also, the only thing I'm laughing at is your blatant ignorance and arrogance as an old person speaking out against people younger than yourself with whom you probably associate very little with. In my experience, it's pretty common of the boomer generation to possess the "I got mine" mentality. Not all of them, of course, allow their lips to perpetuate such trivial statements as you did yours . I suspect this will cause much divisiveness between generations down the road when the doom and gloom really starts percolating.
And now you're poking fun of all those poor young people who won't have the same opportunities afforded to them due to the economic circumstances beyond their control? Wow, so very, very compassionate and mature of you. Please, tell us again how older people are superior than younger people in terms of good nature and doing things the right way. I await in much anticipation for your response.
To be quite frank, I wouldn't want to be your age either because that would mean that I don't have many years ahead of me.
Last edited by Tekkie; 01-06-2013 at 01:03 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This...
