how is the IT industry moving for those w/o degrees (employment, average)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Same experience. I knew a girl, that was a customer service rep.. She was 100% NON-TECHNICAL, but from taking customer service calls she started to get versed on the technical keywords, understanding pending actions required and processes, etc.
She started sitting in on her lunch break and taking notes on what people were doing. People eventually took note of her and when the opportunity for a junior slot opened up she was moved into a low-level tech team. She was officially entry-level IT, with a BA in Accounting. She progressed from there and now several years later she's like a BOSS DOG tech guru.
This sounds like the ideal method, work for the company in a non-IT position and work your way to IT. Great advice, it gives me and I am sure many others hope for the future.
I'm really interested in this too. I do have a degree, but it's unrelated. I spent 10 years as a 911 dispatcher, lots of typing/computer use/pressure/logic in chaos sort of thing, with a background in computer training (but specific to the job).
I admit that, and now I'm interested in learning more about a career in web development. I used to tinker around a lot with that stuff and enjoyed it, but then went in a different path. Problem is I really don't want to go back to school, although I'm considering a part-time certificate (20-45 credits) online as a compromise (I have 2 kids, I can't just go back to uni).
Have you considered taking MOOC's? Just about every major college offers them. It's free online course's from Universities like Georgetown, Yale, etc - actual professors. They aren't accredited, but do give you some learning modules in your desired course of study. I'm taking a few now on Android Programming, totally FREE. It's helpful because I know nothing about Mobile apps.
I interview to fill IT positions all the time. I can tell you the last thing I look at on a resume is the College Degree section. It's really not the most important thing for me. I run a team of Consultants for a hardware/software company. The number one question I ask myself when selecting a candidate is "CAN THIS PERSON PRODUCE". can they hit the ground running with little supervision on day one? if not, will they be able to ramp up in a short time frame?
in my opinion, it would be best to pick up the skills in a section of IT that interest you; certifications come along with doing this as well. from there on, someone will give you a shot. just be highly prepared when an opportunity presents itself.
I'd be quite surprised if non-degree holders get entry level real IT jobs these days, unless youve been coding since high school or some hacker.
FOlks with unrelated degrees in IT, sure. I see a lot of those. Still a few fresh grads getting into IT that way. I see more get on the business side then slowly move to the IT side
I'm also lacking a degree in computer science. I actually did go to community college for computer science. But I was way to impatient taking electives, that I spent my first year just studying in the library. I'm a double wammy. not only am I a college drop out, I'm also a high school drop out. The key thing is that I dropped out at 15, got my GED and started college at 16. I'm probably one of the few non degree IT professionals who are pretty well read in computational theory. So my fundamentals are pretty solid in grasping technology. That's the value of college though. College isn't suppose to teach you solid technical skills, but a good technical foundation. With that said, I've been critical of CS course curriculumn for many years. And I really do hope to see many aspects of it changed.
The real reason why there is such a disconnect between CS Degrees and IT jobs is because they aren't at all related. For the most part only a few people in the industry knows what ties them together. Other IT professionals can normally get by really well on self study, learn the ends and outs of certain technologies, and then get a job and go from there. So they don't need to be well versed in the theory of computer science. It's kind of superflous for them. Anyone getting a computer science degree now is basically just doing it to say they have one. It isn't a good measure of competence. And it's not even designed to be, that's the sad thing. A few institutions like Stanford kind of put some more practical stuff in their coursework, but again it doesn't compare to a good crash course or certs.
The reality is no matter how much places like Google try to make the IT market an elitist "big degree" industry, you can't escape nature. The reality of the nature of IT is that it's a "Get it done now" industry. No business really has the time to just mold people for years on end based on perceived "intangibles". They need someone to get in there and start getting it done right away.
As you can tell, I'm very passionate about the "College" situation concerning Computer Science. It's a VERY interesting field, and I've lived and breathed it for 20 years. And despite me not having a high school education, but not having a college one either, I still have comparable knowledge to a college grad. If you're very inquisitive, there is no better field to be in. If you like to learn, there is no field that makes "re-education" as imperative as Computer Science.
Location: Overlooking the vineyards, olive groves, cattle and horses in the hills of San Miguel CA
167 posts, read 336,605 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRdad
in Business IT, its better to start with a non-IT degree. Almost all industries have IT so you can get into IT with accounting/finance, healthcare, defense, electronics etc. coding is easy too, if you want to be a programmer. It's better to have a degree so you can specialize in a sector. if you only want a job, get certifications. if you want a great pay then specialize
There are caveats to that dictum... OTJ experience and Certs like a CCIE Security show most prospective clients/employers what specialties you have. I was making $170k back in 2007 and supervised more than 120 people in that position. I left to move back out west and now make twice that after taxes in my own IT Security Consulting business... with no degree.
I know more than a few professionals who specialize in one sector or another of IT who also have no degrees whatsoever and who make a more money than me. If talent, competence, experience and communication skills/leadership ability means less to a prospective employer than a degree find a smarter employer... they are out there!
Location: Overlooking the vineyards, olive groves, cattle and horses in the hills of San Miguel CA
167 posts, read 336,605 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by minos16
I did that....skip certs and just get a tech job.....a CCNA would be the best. a MSCA pr Red Hate certificate might be a good runner up.
Experience counts for 20x more than mere certs.....anybody can cram a certificate test.
Try 'cramming' a CCIE in any sector... good luck. CCNA, sure. But high-level certs mostly just bookmark where one is in their OTJ experience... try doing a job you have no experience doing with just the cert, any cert... also no Dice... pun intended.
Last edited by threepounduniverse; 12-03-2013 at 02:04 AM..
The real reason why there is such a disconnect between CS Degrees and IT jobs is because they aren't at all related. For the most part only a few people in the industry knows what ties them together. Other IT professionals can normally get by really well on self study, learn the ends and outs of certain technologies, and then get a job and go from there. So they don't need to be well versed in the theory of computer
The reality is no matter how much places like Google try to make the IT market an elitist "big degree" industry, you can't escape nature. The reality of the nature of IT is that it's a "Get it done now" industry. No business really has the time to just mold people for years on end based on perceived "intangibles". They need someone to get in there and start getting it done right away.
As you can tell, I'm very passionate about the "College" situation concerning Computer Science. It's a VERY interesting field, and I've lived and breathed it for 20 years. And despite me not having a high school education, but not having a college one either, I still have comparable knowledge to a college grad. If you're very inquisitive, there is no better field to be in. If you like to learn, there is no field that makes "re-education" as imperative as Computer Science.
I think you are largely spot-on with the top two paragraphs. In many cases, an employee is working with a small number of technologies directly related to their jobs. However, because tech jobs largely involved specialization, your expertise can be very narrow and the numbers of jobs you are qualified for very few. I can't think of an industry, with the exception of maybe medicine, with so many fragments, disparate and unrelated jobs/tools, etc. One could be a leading expert in some technology yet qualify for almost no other industry jobs.
Because IT is so "get it done now," this makes it difficult to effectively train people in new job roles, so you tend to do what you've always done, even though you may have outgrown the role or want to do something else, which goes back to my primary gripe - pigeonholing.
Also, relearning could be a diplomatic term for obsolete knowledge. Ten, or even five, year old IT knowledge is probably less useful than five year old knowledge in virtually any other field. Constant retraining or cert chasing, often on my own dime, is time consuming and frustrating. Most professions have some sort of CPE requirement, but they aren't nearly as intensive as the IT treadmill.
Have you considered taking MOOC's? Just about every major college offers them. It's free online course's from Universities like Georgetown, Yale, etc - actual professors. They aren't accredited, but do give you some learning modules in your desired course of study. I'm taking a few now on Android Programming, totally FREE. It's helpful because I know nothing about Mobile apps.
I'm checking these out, thanks!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
