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There are caveats to that dictum... OTJ experience and Certs like a CCIE Security show most prospective clients/employers what specialties you have. I was making $170k back in 2007 and supervised more than 120 people in that position. I left to move back out west and now make twice that after taxes in my own IT Security Consulting business... with no degree.
I know more than a few professionals who specialize in one sector or another of IT who also have no degrees whatsoever and who make a more money than me. If talent, competence, experience and communication skills/leadership ability means less to a prospective employer than a degree find a smarter employer... they are out there!
What youre describing is largely the rarer scenario especially for us who's been lucky enough to start IT early. Contracting and self-employment would double your salary once youve made enough connections, years of knowledge and expertise, found the niche market etc. I myself earn 280K - 350k as a programmer. No business headaches, no people to manage, no trainings and certifications. I do work in IB so a finance degree/masters would be beneficial. The confidence and title alone would command a base pay of 320k in my field. I'm guessing you might benefit from a degree/masters as well running a business and selling yourself, no?
Regarding OJT, its similar to just plain work experience I guess. For example, just coming from NYC gives me some edge
No, I'm not in sales. I'm more of a consultant, but I have incentives. My salary is a combination of base and commission. I still do lots of design and engineering work, as well as getting on sales calls. I don't want to do full-on sales, but I do need to hit a higher salary.
I'm at the point in my career now where I'll probably benefit from going to an Ivy league school, not so much for the education; but the connections. I could probably join a country club or move to Silicon Valley for the same thing, it may even be cheaper. lmao.
This is such a great thread full of useful information. I'm looking for a little direction if anyone has a minute.
I'm currently in IT (Support/Analysis) for a very small software company whose market is the broadcasting industry. My college degree is in Electronic Media (concentration in Broadcasting) and I had a technical/operational background in it while I was studying, but I had no idea it would take me so far into IT down the line.
Right after college, I got a job at a major radio network in an entry-level NON-IT position and after some layoffs/pay cuts/furloughs in 2008-2009, I found myself in a "hybrid" position, where I was filling a couple non-IT roles that were previously held by at least three other people (who has since been laid off). The company went through many changes in leadership, ownership, etc., and a multi-million dollar business system transformation project which was hired out to consultants went underway. I wound up being brought in as a Key/Super User to lead in testing of software enhancements and after about a year of that, I applied for an opening they had as the company's first Business Analyst. I had no formal IT education, but picked up a lot from these consultants while I was testing and I also had a couple of awesome bosses.
As the Business Analyst, I began writing Functional Specification Documents, proposing software enhancements on behalf of the end users and then they made me QA Lead on one of the roll-out phases after the consultants' QA Lead left mid-project. Later, I was made CRM Administrator when they decided to roll out Microsoft Dynamics CRM 4.0 to the Sales Staff. Then, right before we crossed the finish line, my company was acquired by another one who was using an entirely different software system and the project was terminated.
During the merger, I wound up being poached from my new company by the software company they were already in-contract with. I currently work for them as a Support Analyst, but I'd like to get back to where I was with Software Testing, Business Analysis and Project Management. I also have a strong interest in programming and HTML coding.
I'm newly-married and kids aren't on the horizon for another few years, so I'm really wanting to take this time to hone in on my skills and get certified, but I don't really know where to begin. What would be most useful and most lucrative for me (eventually)? Even though my experience is broad, collectively, I only have about three-to-four years total of solid IT-related experience. I'm right outside of NYC, but there are a few industries I'd like to avoid (like Finance) and I wouldn't mind IT work outside of NYC, even if it meant a lower pay grade. Finally, if I can narrow down a certification to pursue, does it matter where/how I pursue it?
IT is a grind. I'm sorry I didn't listen to my parents and apply to law school. They also work long hours, but at least it's a profession that doesn't get sent to India for the lowest bidder like some cheap commodity.
What youre describing is largely the rarer scenario especially for us who's been lucky enough to start IT early. Contracting and self-employment would double your salary once youve made enough connections, years of knowledge and expertise, found the niche market etc. I myself earn 280K - 350k as a programmer. No business headaches, no people to manage, no trainings and certifications. I do work in IB so a finance degree/masters would be beneficial. The confidence and title alone would command a base pay of 320k in my field. I'm guessing you might benefit from a degree/masters as well running a business and selling yourself, no?
Regarding OJT, its similar to just plain work experience I guess. For example, just coming from NYC gives me some edge
IT is a grind. I'm sorry I didn't listen to my parents and apply to law school. They also work long hours, but at least it's a profession that doesn't get sent to India for the lowest bidder like some cheap commodity.
IT is definitely a grind. It is getting worst now because not only are we outsourcing our work to India, the Indians are IMMIGRATING TO THE USA to take the jobs here!! The speak Hindi among themselves and are very corrupt and cliquey! Once an Indian becomes a manager, he will only hire other Indians! Someone told me they see non-Indians as "untouchables" since they have the caste system in India!
IT is definitely a grind. It is getting worst now because not only are we outsourcing our work to India, the Indians are IMMIGRATING TO THE USA to take the jobs here!! The speak Hindi among themselves and are very corrupt and cliquey! Once an Indian becomes a manager, he will only hire other Indians! Someone told me they see non-Indians as "untouchables" since they have the caste system in India!
Dude, you are so wrong. I've worked amongst Indians for almost 7 years at this point. I agree, you WILL see a lot of Indians hiring Indians, but they also hire other races too. I've been hired by an Indian manager twice. Both were pretty bad managers though, they come with that Indian/offshore management style, and it's very annoying.
Also any Indian you would see here in the USA probably come from large metros where the caste system isn't observed or irrelevant to them. The caste system comes mainly out of rural areas. There are many rural Indians who move to larger cities, and then eventually come to the states, but they're so mentally retarded, they generally go nowhere career wise. And they'll return to India after a few years anyway.
The real issue is that many Indians come here and simply don't stay. This has a lot to do with family obligations back home. They're also a bit hire maintenence than the average American worker, because they have to return home at times. So they take 1 month vacations minimum most of the time. Most Americans use their vacation time throughout the year and are rarely gone for 1 month at a time.
Indians also have a better support system, so if they just wanted to quit a job, they generally have family to foot the bill. Americans simply have way more to lose if they're unemployed.
If they do get their green card, it's a very complicated hiring procedure. It can take several months to really get their documentation up to par. And they MUST not work during that time due to a company being liable. But again, many Indians don't bother with the citizenship and return home. In Indian they don't allow dual citizenship, so having US Citizenship means renouncing your Indian citizenship. Many aren't willing to do that. There are loophole to this, since the Indian government is way more (openly) corrupt than the US government. And anyway once they come over here, they generally will start competing for the same rate as someone already over here.
Now as far as offshoring is concerned, it's really not that great. There is a major disconnect between Indian and the USA. The bottomline the average offshore is equal to 1 person onshore. And all of the talented offshore resources just come over here anyway, or move up the chain in India. For the most part, offshores at many companies is just incompotently run, with majority big mistakes coming from the offshore part of the team. Also infrastructure in India isn't that great, so Indian offices being disconnected from American offices happen more than it should. On top of that there isn't much of a sense of urgency in India. India is WAY more laid back, and due to their economy being so open, they just find another job if someone comes at them side ways. Average shelf life for an offshore resource is like 2 years, and you're lucky to get that. They're either on a one way trip to the USA, UK or somewhere West or jumping ship to another company.
So all that glitters is not gold with offshore, I can guarantee you that.
IT is definitely a grind. It is getting worst now because not only are we outsourcing our work to India, the Indians are IMMIGRATING TO THE USA to take the jobs here!! The speak Hindi among themselves and are very corrupt and cliquey! Once an Indian becomes a manager, he will only hire other Indians! Someone told me they see non-Indians as "untouchables" since they have the caste system in India!
We have a few Indian managers at my company. Most of their new hires are not Indian. I see a mix of primarily white, hispanic, and black. Indians might be less than 10% of their new hires.
Dude, you are so wrong. I've worked amongst Indians for almost 7 years at this point. I agree, you WILL see a lot of Indians hiring Indians, but they also hire other races too. I've been hired by an Indian manager twice. Both were pretty bad managers though, they come with that Indian/offshore management style, and it's very annoying.
Also any Indian you would see here in the USA probably come from large metros where the caste system isn't observed or irrelevant to them. The caste system comes mainly out of rural areas. There are many rural Indians who move to larger cities, and then eventually come to the states, but they're so mentally retarded, they generally go nowhere career wise. And they'll return to India after a few years anyway.
The real issue is that many Indians come here and simply don't stay. This has a lot to do with family obligations back home. They're also a bit hire maintenence than the average American worker, because they have to return home at times. So they take 1 month vacations minimum most of the time. Most Americans use their vacation time throughout the year and are rarely gone for 1 month at a time.
Indians also have a better support system, so if they just wanted to quit a job, they generally have family to foot the bill. Americans simply have way more to lose if they're unemployed.
If they do get their green card, it's a very complicated hiring procedure. It can take several months to really get their documentation up to par. And they MUST not work during that time due to a company being liable. But again, many Indians don't bother with the citizenship and return home. In Indian they don't allow dual citizenship, so having US Citizenship means renouncing your Indian citizenship. Many aren't willing to do that. There are loophole to this, since the Indian government is way more (openly) corrupt than the US government. And anyway once they come over here, they generally will start competing for the same rate as someone already over here.
Now as far as offshoring is concerned, it's really not that great. There is a major disconnect between Indian and the USA. The bottomline the average offshore is equal to 1 person onshore. And all of the talented offshore resources just come over here anyway, or move up the chain in India. For the most part, offshores at many companies is just incompotently run, with majority big mistakes coming from the offshore part of the team. Also infrastructure in India isn't that great, so Indian offices being disconnected from American offices happen more than it should. On top of that there isn't much of a sense of urgency in India. India is WAY more laid back, and due to their economy being so open, they just find another job if someone comes at them side ways. Average shelf life for an offshore resource is like 2 years, and you're lucky to get that. They're either on a one way trip to the USA, UK or somewhere West or jumping ship to another company.
So all that glitters is not gold with offshore, I can guarantee you that.
Great post, thanks you answered questions I have had for some time.
IT is a grind. I'm sorry I didn't listen to my parents and apply to law school. They also work long hours, but at least it's a profession that doesn't get sent to India for the lowest bidder like some cheap commodity.
what's 'a grind'? too tough for the average american? I think every job has a 'grind' phase
I dont have a finance degree, I got a useless engineering degree from some unknown school even in asia, which cost me not more than $5k for the whole thing. I am a programmer and enjoy doing so and somehow that is enough for me to get paid well. Maybe something similar can apply to lawyers? I think some of their functions can be outsourced(maybe even offshored) too, especially corporate lawyers. I know some software that handles record keeping/filing of their cases so someones losing a job in that area as well
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