Will we need a universal basic income in the future? (middle class, company)
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There is a difference between work to pay the rent (ie a job doing some mundane task) and creating something from nothing out of your mind. However when you are working 60 hrs a week at a starbucks that does not leave much time to develop any of your own intellectual property into some kind of a business.
THAT is the issue, too many people spending too much time running the hamster wheel to pay artificial prices for basic needs. Another option is price controls on rent and food, housing and food are inelastic demand and when you allow price gouging for basic needs that's when you get social problems.
No one wants to have a head full of idea being forced to work inordinate amounts of hours to pay for artificially inflated property/rent just because the "market bares it". Of course the market bares it, people don't want to starve or die of exposure.
However, politicians are also making ALOT of money off of properties and buisenss, they don't want people to be able to take a break and potentially compete with them, they want the illusion that anyone can compete but in reality everyone is in major debt or working huge numbers of hours just to make ends meet.
There is a difference between work to pay the rent (ie a job doing some mundane task) and creating something from nothing out of your mind. However when you are working 60 hrs a week at a starbucks that does not leave much time to develop any of your own intellectual property into some kind of a business.
Thanks for recognizing this basic fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
THAT is the issue, too many people spending too much time running the hamster wheel to pay artificial prices for basic needs. Another option is price controls on rent and food, housing and food are inelastic demand and when you allow price gouging for basic needs that's when you get social problems.
However, within the current system (one that enshrines Scarcity as a core organizing principle and, even, Good), price caps often occasion problems all their own, in turn....
UBI should resolve all the Law of Unintended Consequences scenarios from such things as price caps, welfare programs, etc., it seems to me...except will it create unintended consequences of its own?
Still, I do sense that UBI is a net boon by far....
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
No one wants to have a head full of idea being forced to work inordinate amounts of hours to pay for artificially inflated property/rent just because the "market bares it". Of course the market bares it, people don't want to starve or die of exposure.
Indeed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
However, politicians are also making ALOT of money off of properties and buisenss, they don't want people to be able to take a break and potentially compete with them, they want the illusion that anyone can compete but in reality everyone is in major debt or working huge numbers of hours just to make ends meet.
THIS!!
You know about how zombies became a myth?
African folklore had tales of sorcerers taking over people (and indeed, there are microorganisms that actually do this to ants and mice/rats!!)...but it was French plantation owners in places like Haiti that gave this tradition a twist: since so many slaves were committing suicide, the powers-that-be put out the myth that voodoo witch-doctors would be used to make these people permanent slaves -- even in the afterlife!! -- so they better just work hard and be good Catholics and let God sort things out later....
The only issue is that land lords will know that everyone has this UBI and will adjust prices accordingly putting everyone right back in the same place. The whole point of the UBI is to give people DISPOSABLE income not just give more money to land lords or sellers.
The whole point of all of this is to take money out of the hands of people doing basic things like providing housing and food and create a higher level economy of intellectual property, complex manufacturing, advanced mathematics, etc.
So long as a society lets some lottery winner (someone who happened to have some structures in what became a highly desirable area) gouge everyone so they can sit back and consume alcohol on Hawaii and just be idle then you will slowly decline as a society.
You really think these land owners who just fell into it are going to go get PhD's in mathematics and do cool stuff, nope, they are the idle elite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomelessLoser
Thanks for recognizing this basic fact.
However, within the current system (one that enshrines Scarcity as a core organizing principle and, even, Good), price caps often occasion problems all their own, in turn....
UBI should resolve all the Law of Unintended Consequences scenarios from such things as price caps, welfare programs, etc., it seems to me...except will it create unintended consequences of its own?
Still, I do sense that UBI is a net boon by far....
Indeed!
THIS!!
You know about how zombies became a myth?
African folklore had tales of sorcerers taking over people (and indeed, there are microorganisms that actually do this to ants and mice/rats!!)...but it was French plantation owners in places like Haiti that gave this tradition a twist: since so many slaves were committing suicide, the powers-that-be put out the myth that voodoo witch-doctors would be used to make these people permanent slaves -- even in the afterlife!! -- so they better just work hard and be good Catholics and let God sort things out later....
The only issue is that land lords will know that everyone has this UBI and will adjust prices accordingly putting everyone right back in the same place.
Huh??
No, not at all -- you see, a great many folks would migrate to cheaper locales, which means economically stagnant if not depressed areas, which means economically revitalizing those places, and thus relieving price pressures so that landlords would be hard-pressed to raise rents dramatically...indeed, I expect prices to drop!
THAT is the issue, too many people spending too much time running the hamster wheel to pay artificial prices for basic needs. Another option is price controls on rent and food, housing and food are inelastic demand and when you allow price gouging for basic needs that's when you get social problems.
No one wants to have a head full of idea being forced to work inordinate amounts of hours to pay for artificially inflated property/rent just because the "market bares it". Of course the market bares it, people don't want to starve or die of exposure.
if they can't find their way out of a minimum wage job... how likely do you think they will find their way to success with a head full of ideas?
And you're a conspiracy theorist -- and the ironic thing about you lot is that you're actually correct that conspiracies do exist but totally incorrect which ones....
So you folks are worried about contrails, mind control, 9/11, the Illuminati, Bilderberg Group, etc., etc., etc., et al. but absolutely miss the very real conspiracies right in front of us: millionaire and billionaires buying national and state-level politicians, upper middle-class petite bourgeoisie and non-profit and organized labor leaders buying off local politicians, Russians doing to the U.S. what the U.S. through its C.I.A. did to Chileans, Iranians, Iraqis, Lebanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Greeks, Turks, Sicilians, Argentinians, Dominicans, Hondurans, Nicaraguans, Panamanians, etc., etc., etc. et al.
Ahh the reductionism bent. I have stated issues with this guaranteed basic income, thus you with your keen analytical skills coupled with near godlike discernment have been reduced into a "bucket" with a bunch of stereotypical conspiracy hipster types, all while at the same time expressing your deep understanding of what goes on behind the curtain. I actually talk about the above topics (though perhaps with different slants then most...often). I wish I was as good as you...I'll keep striving.
More to the point, what is it that you really want?
What do you gain by keeping the status quo??
Good questions, but you assume I want to keep that status quo, which I absolutely do not, or at least not how it operates in reality. That discussion would be interesting but outside of scope here. A brief taste would be for people to act morally, regardless of political persuasion, with all their cards in the open and on the table. You want to reduce the earth's population down to 300 million? Fine, be open and honest about it. You want to be funded by some shadow group? Fine, admit it. etc... What we have now is hidden agendas and massive corruption. Expose the hidden, destroy the corrupt, and much of the ideological debates will fade away...
A universal currency is likely after the collapse of the US dollar.
Nah, that is old school. New school is to replace the dollar more and more with "Special Drawing Rights" through the world bank/IMF. Google.
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Not hating on you man, just amused.
