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I didn't know what to put up as the thread title. I apologize if people have beaten this topic to death but I didn't see a thread about it in the first page of threads so I figured I'd try.
My wife and I are American - have been for our whole lives. We're both in our 30's - old enough to see how America is going down the drain but not so old that we couldn't start again.
What's not to like about America? Oh let's see... in no particular order...
-The police can't protect themselves using deadly force against a rampaging criminal thug without being pilloried by the media (and by connection the barking dog chorus we call the general public) and causing destructive riots to happen.
-If you try to make a living on your own in America (as opposed to "having a job"), you are slapped with unavoidable gigantic taxes (I'm looking at you, SELF EMPLOYMENT TAX, and you, HEALTH INSURANCE MANDATE) which could bury you even if you're living beneath the poverty line.
-Freedom of speech? Don't make me laugh. Say the wrong thing in America and it can get you fired, beaten up, killed, arrested, etc. People in this country have very thin skins.
-America has never been as racist as it is now, at least in my recollection. Is it possible that the 1960's were worse? Maybe, but the 2010's are sure worse than the 1990's and 2000's were.
-If you want to get rich, you have to have a lot of money... or you have to be very, very lucky. It cannot be said that all it takes is hard work... the hardest workers I've ever known have been poor. My dad worked 80 hours a week for 13 years (not to mention "full time plus" for 25 additional years and part time for many more years than that) and never "got ahead". The people who are out there working 3 jobs, sleeping in their cars sometimes, to make ends meet - how many of them are living comfortably?
-In 2012, the total personal income of everyone in the USA was $13.4 TRILLION. Divided by the approximate population of the USA in 2012 (313 million people), that yields $42,812 for every man, woman and child. With that amount of money, heck, even HALF that amount of money, not a person in the country should be poor! Yet there is a huge poverty problem in America, and with it, a huge crime problem.
-The system in this country is set up to concentrate wealth and power at the top, and prevent all those who aren't already there from getting there. It is almost impossibly difficult to become a "one percenter" if you weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth. All you have to do to see how this plays out is look at a chart showing the ratio of CEO pay to worker pay, over the years. You'll see it go from a factor somewhere in the 40's a mere four decades ago, to a factor well over 1,000 now.
-An overwhelming proportion of the people in America dislike and distrust the government.
I could go on and on but you get the idea. I'm not the type of person to complain about something without either doing something about it or removing myself from it. My wife is in agreement about the problems of this country. We haven't done any "world travel", to speak of. I've been to Canada twice and that's it. So I have a question for those of you who know the world better than I do.
Is there a country out there where:
-To be on welfare, you are required to work the hours of a regular job if you are physically capable of doing any kind of beneficial work?
-Crime is so low that even in the big cities, you don't feel like you must have a security system, or even really good door locks, in order to have little to no worry about the safety of your dwelling?
-It's easy to get a well-paying job? (or, put differently, that ALL jobs are sufficiently well-paying such that someone who does good work for 40 hours per week will be able to live comfortably without having to be "hand to mouth", "paycheck to paycheck", etc?)
-"Being who and what you want to be" is encouraged and rewarded, so long as it doesn't result in inconvenience or harm to others?
-People actually care about each other's well being more than they care about the almighty [unit of money]? (After all, when the Wal-Mart owner family is worth over $100 BILLION collectively, and so many of their workers can't afford basic necessities that there are food drives going on at Wal-Mart to help needy Wal-Mart workers, SOMETHING IS WRONG!!!!)
-The prevailing culture is one of RESPECT, for people such as law enforcement officers, teachers, and most importantly, PARENTS?
-You CAN immigrate to the country but it's harder to get in than it is to get into the USA? (As in, they weed out the chaff and only let in people who give every appearance of being the law-abiding and productive type?)
-The prevailing opinion of the people is that they DO like and trust their government?
-Racism is minimal or nonexistent?
-The country has "its way" of doing things and WILL NOT BEND THE RULES for immigrants (something America LOVES to do)?
Let's stick with this. It'd be great if the country was English-speaking, but I don't mind learning another language. I've done it once already and could do it again. We're just tired of "the American way" where people only care about making money, you aren't encouraged to pursue your dreams unless those dreams are likely to make you a huge amount of money (if you want to be a doctor or lawyer, great - if you want to be anything artistic, no, don't do it, you'll starve to death.......... even though the arts are what make a culture... just ask any archaeologist), you're at the mercy of the army of lawyers that can be afforded by the richy-rich, the government is under the influence of lobbyists that are paid for by - you guessed it - the richy-rich, and the people who get elected are either richy-rich themselves or supported by richy-rich people who expect favors in return. This isn't the America that the Pilgrims set out to establish in the early 1600's. This isn't the America that the colonists fought for in the late 1700's. The Founding Fathers would be rolling around in their graves so much that there'd be endless earthquakes. We want to find a different and more pleasant way of living, which is not as soul-destroying and anger-inducing.
Any ideas?
It doesn't exist. But if you're willing to compromise some of your criteria, then maybe Australia or Singpour? as others have mentioned.
It doesn't exist. But if you're willing to compromise some of your criteria, then maybe Australia or Singpour? as others have mentioned.
Exactly what criteria would I have to compromise to think that Australia and Canada were great? (I wouldn't do Singapore as it is too urban and too densely populated.)
-It's easy to get a well-paying job? (or, put differently, that ALL jobs are sufficiently well-paying such that someone who does good work for 40 hours per week will be able to live comfortably without having to be "hand to mouth", "paycheck to paycheck", etc?)
You're dreaming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy;
-The prevailing opinion of the people is that they DO like and trust their government?
You're looking for a nation of sheeple? Got it.
I believe Russia has some openings in the sheeple dept. But it's so hard to get into, you may not be approved. But then...that's what you wanted, isn't it? A tough immigration policy?
How's your Russian, btw? What languages do you know? Chinese? (Singapore, Taiwan) No? No languages? hmm....
You could try convincing Canada to let you in, but their selection process is pretty rigorous. What skills do you have to offer? Engineering? Oil extraction? Medical expertise? No?
Post again when you're ready to get serious.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 12-07-2014 at 08:37 PM..
You're dreaming.
You're looking for a nation of sheeple? Got it.
I believe Russia has some openings... But it's so hard to get into, you may not be approved. But then...that's what you wanted, isn't it? A tough immigration policy?
How's your Russian, btw? What languages do you know? Chinese? (Singapore, Taiwan) No? No languages? hmm....
You could try convincing Canada to let you in, but their selection process is pretty rigorous. What skills do you have to offer? Engineering? Oil extraction? Medical expertise? No?
I didn't know what to put up as the thread title. I apologize if people have beaten this topic to death but I didn't see a thread about it in the first page of threads so I figured I'd try.
My wife and I are American - have been for our whole lives. We're both in our 30's - old enough to see how America is going down the drain but not so old that we couldn't start again.
What's not to like about America? Oh let's see... in no particular order...
-The police can't protect themselves using deadly force against a rampaging criminal thug without being pilloried by the media (and by connection the barking dog chorus we call the general public) and causing destructive riots to happen.
-If you try to make a living on your own in America (as opposed to "having a job"), you are slapped with unavoidable gigantic taxes (I'm looking at you, SELF EMPLOYMENT TAX, and you, HEALTH INSURANCE MANDATE) which could bury you even if you're living beneath the poverty line.
-Freedom of speech? Don't make me laugh. Say the wrong thing in America and it can get you fired, beaten up, killed, arrested, etc. People in this country have very thin skins.
-America has never been as racist as it is now, at least in my recollection. Is it possible that the 1960's were worse? Maybe, but the 2010's are sure worse than the 1990's and 2000's were.
-If you want to get rich, you have to have a lot of money... or you have to be very, very lucky. It cannot be said that all it takes is hard work... the hardest workers I've ever known have been poor. My dad worked 80 hours a week for 13 years (not to mention "full time plus" for 25 additional years and part time for many more years than that) and never "got ahead". The people who are out there working 3 jobs, sleeping in their cars sometimes, to make ends meet - how many of them are living comfortably?
-In 2012, the total personal income of everyone in the USA was $13.4 TRILLION. Divided by the approximate population of the USA in 2012 (313 million people), that yields $42,812 for every man, woman and child. With that amount of money, heck, even HALF that amount of money, not a person in the country should be poor! Yet there is a huge poverty problem in America, and with it, a huge crime problem.
-The system in this country is set up to concentrate wealth and power at the top, and prevent all those who aren't already there from getting there. It is almost impossibly difficult to become a "one percenter" if you weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth. All you have to do to see how this plays out is look at a chart showing the ratio of CEO pay to worker pay, over the years. You'll see it go from a factor somewhere in the 40's a mere four decades ago, to a factor well over 1,000 now.
-An overwhelming proportion of the people in America dislike and distrust the government.
I could go on and on but you get the idea. I'm not the type of person to complain about something without either doing something about it or removing myself from it. My wife is in agreement about the problems of this country. We haven't done any "world travel", to speak of. I've been to Canada twice and that's it. So I have a question for those of you who know the world better than I do.
Is there a country out there where:
-To be on welfare, you are required to work the hours of a regular job if you are physically capable of doing any kind of beneficial work?
-Crime is so low that even in the big cities, you don't feel like you must have a security system, or even really good door locks, in order to have little to no worry about the safety of your dwelling?
-It's easy to get a well-paying job? (or, put differently, that ALL jobs are sufficiently well-paying such that someone who does good work for 40 hours per week will be able to live comfortably without having to be "hand to mouth", "paycheck to paycheck", etc?)
-"Being who and what you want to be" is encouraged and rewarded, so long as it doesn't result in inconvenience or harm to others?
-People actually care about each other's well being more than they care about the almighty [unit of money]? (After all, when the Wal-Mart owner family is worth over $100 BILLION collectively, and so many of their workers can't afford basic necessities that there are food drives going on at Wal-Mart to help needy Wal-Mart workers, SOMETHING IS WRONG!!!!)
-The prevailing culture is one of RESPECT, for people such as law enforcement officers, teachers, and most importantly, PARENTS?
-You CAN immigrate to the country but it's harder to get in than it is to get into the USA? (As in, they weed out the chaff and only let in people who give every appearance of being the law-abiding and productive type?)
-The prevailing opinion of the people is that they DO like and trust their government?
-Racism is minimal or nonexistent?
-The country has "its way" of doing things and WILL NOT BEND THE RULES for immigrants (something America LOVES to do)?
Let's stick with this. It'd be great if the country was English-speaking, but I don't mind learning another language. I've done it once already and could do it again. We're just tired of "the American way" where people only care about making money, you aren't encouraged to pursue your dreams unless those dreams are likely to make you a huge amount of money (if you want to be a doctor or lawyer, great - if you want to be anything artistic, no, don't do it, you'll starve to death.......... even though the arts are what make a culture... just ask any archaeologist), you're at the mercy of the army of lawyers that can be afforded by the richy-rich, the government is under the influence of lobbyists that are paid for by - you guessed it - the richy-rich, and the people who get elected are either richy-rich themselves or supported by richy-rich people who expect favors in return. This isn't the America that the Pilgrims set out to establish in the early 1600's. This isn't the America that the colonists fought for in the late 1700's. The Founding Fathers would be rolling around in their graves so much that there'd be endless earthquakes. We want to find a different and more pleasant way of living, which is not as soul-destroying and anger-inducing.
Any ideas?
Sounds like you are feeling bummed out, disappointed, and frustrated in the way things are going in the country. Trust me op, you are not the only one, because many people feel the same way. Not everyone can cut and run when things get tough. You have to dig your heels in sometimes and hold on until your change come. One thing you can do is stop watching so much news, the daily dose of doom and gloom will eventually get to you. Take a break from the tv and social media, just turn it off. Good Luck
You're dreaming.
You're looking for a nation of sheeple? Got it.
I believe Russia has some openings in the sheeple dept. But it's so hard to get into, you may not be approved. But then...that's what you wanted, isn't it? A tough immigration policy?
How's your Russian, btw? What languages do you know? Chinese? (Singapore, Taiwan) No? No languages? hmm.... You could try convincing Canada to let you in, but their selection process is pretty rigorous. What skills do you have to offer? Engineering? Oil extraction? Medical expertise? No?
Post again when you're ready to get serious.
Maybe he's really rich, and can start a business employing hundreds of Canadians.
That will get him in.
Why isn't the US as interesting as Europe, if you ask me the US better than Europe in a lot of ways.
The depth and variety of cultural experiences are greater in Europe over much shorter distances. The United States is relatively the same almost everywhere you go with some minor regional variations. It is more diverse than it used to be though.
You're dreaming.
You're looking for a nation of sheeple? Got it.
I believe Russia has some openings in the sheeple dept. But it's so hard to get into, you may not be approved. But then...that's what you wanted, isn't it? A tough immigration policy?
How's your Russian, btw? What languages do you know? Chinese? (Singapore, Taiwan) No? No languages? hmm....
You could try convincing Canada to let you in, but their selection process is pretty rigorous. What skills do you have to offer? Engineering? Oil extraction? Medical expertise? No?
Post again when you're ready to get serious.
Your personal attack is not appreciated and if you do it again, it will be reported.
If I wasn't serious, I wouldn't be posting.
I'm not looking for a nation of "sheeple". I'm looking for a nation where the people know how to use their brains and think critically, and even still they find that their system of government is good and trustworthy. Everybody has to be governed in some way, and there appear to be only two choices - subjugation under a system you don't like, or agreeable submission to a system you do like. An example of the latter would be "communes", which are essentially micro-societies which do things their own way. I recently investigated the concept and found that often they have their own rules and if you wish to join, you have to be willing to do things their way. The difference is, of course, if you don't like "their way", nobody forces you to join and/or be subjugated under said "way". In your country of residence, you have no choice but to be subjugated by its government and therefore the best situation is to have the majority of the residents be both free-thinking AND supportive of the government. After all, it could be argued that North Koreans like their system of government, but that's only because failure to like it often results in death. That's not my idea of a free-thinking group of people.
Yes, I wanted a tough immigration policy. I want that for the same reason why I like small towns where the good ol' boys look upon newcomers with suspicion until they prove themselves. A country with a tough immigration policy is actively trying to protect "its way" and knows, better than America does (apparently), that failure to do so inevitably results in the watering down of "its way" as the country turns into a cultural melting pot where everybody insists upon being able to do things their way. I would not want to go to a country where I didn't want to do things "their way". I've never had a problem moving into such "small towns" because the people who live there will accept you readily after you prove that you aren't going to try to change "their way".
I suggest that you remain silent after asking a question, rather than assuming that you already know the answer despite being a stranger to me. In so doing you would find my response to be that I know two spoken languages - English and Spanish. The fact that I was able to learn a second language with above-average efficiency means that I can learn a third one if need be.
What skills do I have to offer? I'm college-educated in physics, mathematics and computer science. I have teaching and tutoring experience, both in a public school and on a private basis. I'm a really good entertainer as well. I have zero criminal record, I don't smoke nor use drugs, and I don't even drink that much. I have an IQ provably in the "genius" range and an excellent command of the English language. I've even done network engineering and programming, though I'm not interested in getting back into that. I don't know what sets of skills are needed by the powers that be in various different countries, but I do know that I possess more skills than the average immigrant to America.
Your personal attack is not appreciated and if you do it again, it will be reported.
If I wasn't serious, I wouldn't be posting.
I'm not looking for a nation of "sheeple". I'm looking for a nation where the people know how to use their brains and think critically, and even still they find that their system of government is good and trustworthy. Everybody has to be governed in some way, and there appear to be only two choices - subjugation under a system you don't like, or agreeable submission to a system you do like. An example of the latter would be "communes", which are essentially micro-societies which do things their own way. I recently investigated the concept and found that often they have their own rules and if you wish to join, you have to be willing to do things their way. The difference is, of course, if you don't like "their way", nobody forces you to join and/or be subjugated under said "way". In your country of residence, you have no choice but to be subjugated by its government and therefore the best situation is to have the majority of the residents be both free-thinking AND supportive of the government. After all, it could be argued that North Koreans like their system of government, but that's only because failure to like it often results in death. That's not my idea of a free-thinking group of people.
Yes, I wanted a tough immigration policy. I want that for the same reason why I like small towns where the good ol' boys look upon newcomers with suspicion until they prove themselves. A country with a tough immigration policy is actively trying to protect "its way" and knows, better than America does (apparently), that failure to do so inevitably results in the watering down of "its way" as the country turns into a cultural melting pot where everybody insists upon being able to do things their way. I would not want to go to a country where I didn't want to do things "their way". I've never had a problem moving into such "small towns" because the people who live there will accept you readily after you prove that you aren't going to try to change "their way".
I suggest that you remain silent after asking a question, rather than assuming that you already know the answer despite being a stranger to me. In so doing you would find my response to be that I know two spoken languages - English and Spanish. The fact that I was able to learn a second language with above-average efficiency means that I can learn a third one if need be.
What skills do I have to offer? I'm college-educated in physics, mathematics and computer science. I have teaching and tutoring experience, both in a public school and on a private basis. I'm a really good entertainer as well. I have zero criminal record, I don't smoke nor use drugs, and I don't even drink that much. I have an IQ provably in the "genius" range and an excellent command of the English language. I've even done network engineering and programming, though I'm not interested in getting back into that. I don't know what sets of skills are needed by the powers that be in various different countries, but I do know that I possess more skills than the average immigrant to America.
Again, it's ironic that you're looking for a country with strict immigration controls.
Most countries won't let you in because "you're a genius, speak English well, don't smoke or do drugs". You may be "college-educated in physics, math and computer science", but are you a physicist, mathematician or computer programmer? Just studying it in school many years ago isn't good enough.
If they're desperately in need of teachers, tutors or entertainers, then you stand a chance.
Otherwise, not so much.
As far as I know, The USA is the only country where this is possible, correct me if I am wrong !
Some of our children are born in *foreign* (to us) countries (due the the type of work I do) and none of them have dual citizenship !
Quite a few countries apply the ius soli principle and I guess many Americans have dual citizenship because of that.
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